do you agree with those critics?

I personally am like: whut? i went friday though, so maybe that was different, but that was such an excellent show.

* It's hard to tell when and if Sufjan is being ironic

wouldn't that be more of a statement about the perceptive abilities of the people saying that, rather than one about Sufjan? It was totally obvious when he was.

And unrehearsed? Haha that makes me laugh seeing that the band pulls off complicated time signature switches effortlessly and without mistakes through out the whole set and puts together 7 part harmonies on most songs.

OMG! When are the posts about Sufjan gonna end? OVERLOAD!

Wes, You and I are on the same wavelength. I thought Friday night was MESMERIZING, even though it was unacceptably late and my feet were killing me and Smoosh was drove me into rant-mode (after a long, hard week with the Man's foot up my ass, must my hard-earned bread go to an alt-rock female Hanson? I have no problem with those kids being in a band, but opening for a sold-out Bowery Ballroom on my Friday night? Not on my dime. Maybe if they were both really homely and overweight I would have been willing to indulge them. Having said that, I had to admit that their last song was pretty good - FOR 12-YEAR-OLDS.)
But once the Illinoise hit, I felt no pain. The whole pep-rally thing could have been gone the way of the twee but they kept it short and sweet. I would love to go to Homecoming tonight if anyone has a ticket. (I'll spike the punch.)

I thought it was a great show last night.

BV - too bad you missed Bunky, they were hilarious!

Wes - the "unrehearsed" part refers to the show in general, the bits....NOT the songs. That's the complaint. The show didn't flow. Do I agree? At times I wished they would hurry up, especially the second night when all I wanted to hear was the songs.

piper - I saw Bunky the night before. I agree!

last night more awkward, unrehearsed bits in between songs than fri, which was seamless. he seemed tired last night too. aw poor guy.

It seems to me the best of use of irony in art is when it is not clear, when it works on both levels. The artist is having a laugh, and hopefully sharing it with the audience - wink, wink. But she/he is also using humor to make a deeper statement - that there is some truth beneath the easy laugh.

Re: Friday's show and flow. I can't remember when 90 (plus) minutes went by so fast.

Here's a guy who is thoughtful and modest in interviews; is technically proficient on guitar, banjo, and piano (at least); creates beautiful, funny and sad songs that combine autobiography and well-researched historical/geographical/cultural details; releases on a small independent label; competently leads a large band through inventive interpretations of recorded material; apparently sews his own outfits. How can you possibly hate on that shit? Irony or no, it seemed to me that both Sufjan and the band were wholly invested in and excited about their performance.

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but there seemed to be a refreshing lack of professional hipsters talking at the top of their lungs the night I was there (Saturday). I guess a dearth of post-punk influences really keeps the fuckers at bay.

drewo >> yes!!! I felt the same way. I was like: whoa they are done already?? then I noticed they played nearly 2 hours. Went by so fast

Yeah, Arv, everyone around me was on their best behavior Friday. People were actually listening; can you imagine?

i was challenged to "take this shit outside" after i shooshed one of those professional hipsters talking at the top of his lungs at the (smog) show not so long ago. though he looked to be about 30, he couldn't have been a day over 18...i mean really, "take it outside?"

thankfully, he and his pixie-haired hipster chick posse were nowhere to be seen at the ballroom last night.

Couldn't agree more Arv. And although I'm sad that because of all Sufjan's recent press now everyone and their mother wants a piece of him, it's nice to know that someone so talented has very passionate fans.

This one's always perplexed me, and all kinds of people do it. I mean, a dive bar I can understand, but who pays $15 to see the Mountain Goats at Southpaw so they can stand at the bar and scream?

I've heard tales in the past of Bill Callahan not taking these things so well.

Yeah, I can deal with (and am guilty of) low-as-possible conversation with a friend while attentively watching a performance, but shouting to a group of friends with your back to the stage is worthly of said trip outside.

i thought the show comes across with perhaps a lack of sincerity. the record seems *very* sincere and straight-up, so i was surprised to feel a disconnect. illinois is the first of his records that i've picked up, so there is perhaps history i don't see. the balloon dropping made me think of the flaming lips, who are usually pretty ridiculous, but everything they do seems like they *mean it* so much. and if you didn't know the illinois record, but just stepped into the show, you might think sufjan was taking the piss out of illinois. i don't think it would be a problem of the viewer spotting irony, provided we are dealing with a normal viewer, but rather irony and heartfelt seriousness switching back and forth too erratically.

but, i was surrounded by ironic kids who talked and giggled through the show, so i might have actually thought there was a disconnect between the people around me and the record. sometimes this is part of the complexity of live music--the other people and the venue become part of it.

it's probably just a matter of differing tastes.

i thought they were great musicians, and that the songs are of course excellent. the john wayne gacy jr song made the show for me.

"if you didn't know the illinois record, but just stepped into the show, you might think sufjan was taking the piss out of illinois." - in recent articles/interviews I've read, Stevens makes it seem like the whole album is a big joke. not the music, the concept.

Whats funny is that Sufjan is a christian artist, who writes christian music...yeah he does, that's right. and the crowd at these shows are mostly hipsters who pray at the alter of irony. I think its good for hipsters to be reminded how ridiculous they are...and if it means balloons being dropped and cheers that name drop George Papadopoulos from Webster and Balki Bartakamous then so be it. The shows were great, and the stage show took nothing away from the performance...I still got goosebumps during casimir pulaski day and john Wayne gacy Jr.

the 50 states concept is not so much a joke as more like something he didn't think people would take seriously. he wasn't necessarily stating he was going to do 50 albums in an extremely serious manner like "this WILL happen, and I dedicate my life to it." Something can be sincere AND ironic.\

and joshua: what you can have fun or be funny AND be sincere about the songs? Everyone is so shortsighted and black n white. The world of music is not ubercool super serious hipster indie rock OR tenacious d type funny music. That's like saying basketball only has teams that are either super serious like the 95 Bulls OR The Harlem Globetrotters.

I ummm... *waits for onslaught*

have a bootleg of last nights fake facial hair and tattoo show!!!

*runs*

*comes back*

No really it's a pretty awesome boot and I am super picky. I was recording from the balcony and got Sufjan's full set including the encore song.... I will prolly put it on you send it in the next week or so... if you'd like a copy of the link at which it will appear please feel free to e-mail me.

THe reason for the wai is cuz I wanna do a bit of audio editing and tracking.

Jason

Point taken. I watched from the balcony (SGS - Short Girlfriend Syndrome), and no one up there was giggling, though I did laugh every time they started a cheer. It just seems like Sufjan really went to extremes to write detailed songs about different places, and that the "irony" in question is directly related to (both inspired by and inspiring) humor, nostalgia, and pleasure, rather than the detachment and cynicism that we've come to associate it with.

In addition, there's no proper context for situating a song like "decatur" next to a song like "casimir polaski day" because most bands can only handle one overriding sytle/sentiment.

Sorry, I'll stop my long-winded posts about Sufjan now.

A pirate walks into a bar. The bartender says "Excuse me, sir, but I that you have a ship's steering wheel sticking out of your pants."

The pirate nods and says, "AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH, it's driving me nuts!"

am i the only one who thinks sufjan's got a great ass?

Is it ironic that I have pictures of ABBA, Chaka Khan, and Barry Manilow taped on the side of my computer?

:p

i'd put the tip in.