nice thigh!

stay true, bmi.

every bar who plays music needs to pay ascap/bmi/cesack royalty money.

these artists deserve the money, don't you think?

i'm sorry i think i'm confused - is tomorrow august 1 or april 1?

I too could care less about big artist and hiro ballroom, but if you allow ASCAP to sue Hiro Ballroom, then you allow ASCAP to sue Bowery Ballroom, Mercury Lounge, and Hi Fi too.

Artists making money = good
Suing establishments who play music = not good

ASCAP = RIAA = stupid

so if I throw a party at my house, have people over and play music, I can get sued? These people are paying to get into the bar to drink and listen to live music, not listen to the djs between sets. am i completely off on this?

Next thing you know, you'll have to have a permit and a $$1 million$$ dollar insurance policy to dj in NYC too.

Next thing you know, you'll need a permit to take a picture in NYC... o wait, you really might have to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/28/nyregion/28film.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1185825012-NcbB5lCtvMud3w0ARTqYUQ

Here, do something about it:
http://pictureny.org/

O, I forgot, you DO need a $$1 million$$ dollar insurance policy to shoot with a tripod in NYC....

throwing a party at your house wouldn't be considered a "public" enough performance of the music to require a license - but when you're playing music to people you don't know and who've paid to get in, it's very different under copyright law.

GET off my recoreds collection! I already payed you once record people. For the records. And also they charge me for my beers i drank already when i go there!

Actually concert promoters already pay ASCAP & BMI in the expenses for shows they put on... its sort of a standard fee thats pro-rated....but some smaller bars that do shows probably dont do this..it seems crazy..its not like radio where what is played can be easily tracked... I think with all the free music on the web, record & publishng companies are getting overly aggressive and seeking as many avenues as they can.. I'm all for artists getting paid but this seems a bit grasping..

with the pricey drinks, Hiro can definitely afford to kick a few dimes ASCAP's way.

this is why some venues (such as as220 for example) do not allow musicians whom are registered with rights management organisations to perform in their venues. this is also hard with the amount of music that is played through various devices, and i'm pretty sure many small bars do not keep a list of what they play every night.

it may seem unfair, but if you're going to point the finger here it has to be at the artists. if an artist really believes anyone/everyone should be able to publicly perform their music for free, they can simply not sign up with a performance rights organization like ASCAP. ASCAP can only enforce the rights of artists who have signed up with them.

ASCAP/BMI/SESAC are evil. They are a tool of the major label industry.
Hundreds of small businesses that support independent music and can barely pay the rent, can't afford the ridiculous licensing fees that these companies harass them for. The performance rights orgs sue them for tens of thousands of dollars in order to put a small business out of business if they can't pay.
Musicians below a certain sales level don't see a dime of this licensing money.

musicians don't have a choice, unless they put out the records themselves, which is futile.

i almost don't want to chime in, but the solution is simple; pay ascap/bmi or don't have djs/cover bands.
when you pay for the album, you pay to listen to the album for recreational purposes, not to play the record for people and get paid to do it. that's why you pay ascap/bmi. the system is here for a reason and as much as we all like to gripe about it, it's sort of like the government. yes, bush is an evil dingleberry. yes, the war sucks. but communism in action? give me a break.

i feel bad for these NYC venues but ASCAP has already been screwing over local coffee shops for a while now. sure DJs in New York are having it rough but local musicians in small towns can't even cover dylan or the velvet underground at open-mic nights. it doesn't matter which artists are licensed; the venues are being shut down. these people need to be stopped now.

"Musicians below a certain sales level don't see a dime of this licensing money"

if this were true then why do such muscians sign up with ASCAP/BMI? no one is holding a gun to their head. and if they don't signup with ASCAP/BMI, then ASCAP/BMI cannot sue them for playing the songs.

the labels wouldn't sign them without ASCAP/BMI being involved. Without performance rights orgs, it would be much easier for labels to fuck bands.
Anon 9:23- it doesn't matter if it's cover bands or original music. Even if bands are performing their OWN songs in a venue, you need an ASCAP, BMI & SESAC license.

what bands are actually registered with this group?

So having an asian themed bar is racist? So what if the writing is non-sensical? How is anything at hiro ballroom "racist"? It is pretty easy to throw around the race card these days.

Is Otto's Shrunken Head racist against Hawaiians because it has a tiki theme?

That said, the record industry is so money hungry that they are willing to shoot themselves in the foot, and piss off every one of their customers. Keep adding DRM to your music, keep charging more and more for CDs that we know cost very little to produce, while giving almost none of that money to the artists themselves. The record industry is dying fast, and I welcome it. I would much rather find out about new artists via the web, and download their music, and then go see them in concert, where the bands will certainly see the money I spend on them.

paying for a license is part of having a venue that plays music. how are artists to blame for wanting to get paid for things they put out? artists are already basically giving their music away online. anything you want is already free. you don't go to the grocery store and not pay for your groceries. if you have a venue and are making money off of a dj you are making money because of the artists' music they spin. they deserve part of the money.

The fact that clubs are obligated to to pay blanket license fees to ASCAP/BMI/SESAC for any music that is performed (recorded, live covers and live original) is nothing new. From Mercury Lounge to Giants Stadium and everr venue in between, they all pony up. If Hiro doesn't want to pony up, and ASCAP doesn't go after them, then doesn't that suck for all those other clubs that you love to go to? Isn't that an unfair advantage? On behalf of all the law-abiding clubs shouldn't you be pissed at Hiro? Or are you one of those narrow minded people who thought the cops at the 7/7/7 event were to blame for that debaucle.

Also, if you're a member of ASCAP and you perform live, you should inform them of that performance so that they could break you off a chunk of the fee that they collect. Its called a little administrative elbow grease, but sadly I doubt any songwriters actually do it.

it's not administrative elbow grease that gets you a cut of venue licensing fees. The money is divided among the top-selling artists (Grateful Dead, Madonna, Metallica, etc.).

Say you play a show at the Bowery, then you submit the set list to ASCAP, then you follow up and become a squeaky thorn in their side, you think they're not gonna send you a check? Sure it won't be huge, butI mean they collect a fee from Bowery so they can legally hold performances of music, YOUR music, and Madonna and the Grateful Dead sure as hell don't play that venue. Smarten up people.

I think you'd rather just think what you think you think is right and thereby have a fight-the-man cause. Weak.

you're wrong.

So many of these comments are made by people who have no clue about how the music industry works. People who are posting things bashing the record labels only proves they are merely guessing how things really work in the music biz. Copyrights are a different part of the business and seperate from selling records.

pretty much half of all music copyright owners are registered with ASCAP. BMI is worse since their interests are invested in the broadcasting side of the business. At least ASCAP looks out for "ARTISTS".

it's not a different part of the business. The performance rights orgs make sure that the artists/labels get paid when their work is used.

If you are a business, stop using music. Seriously. See how that goes. Artists have a hard enough time getting paid, believe it or not, ASCAP probably has the best, not most exact, but best system. It's also not true that only the top tier artists get the money. I've known tons of small bands that receive ASCAP checks...

I am a venue owner, and it's a necessary evil. Otherwise, start a spa and call it the Quiet Zone, and have no music. If you're a restaurant, want to get around paying ASCAP/BMI and want music, hire a quartet or something, but don't put the radio on...

no one ever said that "small bands" don't receive checks when their work is used for specific commercial purposes. The topic here is about venue licenses, and it is a fact that only the top-tier artists receive a cut of this.

For all I know, you might play K-Rock at your venue all day Jack, in which case, yes, you should have to pay for the licenses. The performance rights organizations assume that all venues play major-label commercial music and do not track what they are actually playing.

Paying for a license and expecting that the money is going to go to musicians who deserve it is like paying your taxes and expecting the government to spend the money wisely. ASCAP/BMI/SESAC are scammers. They purposely make it confusing to see exactly what they do. They won't even tell you what venues have a license.

Jack- if you hire a quartet and that's the only music played- ASCAP/BMI says you still need to pay them. They're justification is that it's impossible for music to be played somewhere without some work licensed by them being used.

ummm wait a minute dont all bars need to have this license to operate? i thought you cant even put a tv in a bar without getting commercial license.

interesting in these articles they never mention the MONEY, its always oh we are getting fucked by these organizations that make up pay up, but when it comes down to actual dollar amounts everybody shuts their mouth. is it because the amount is laughably small in relation to for ex how much these bars charge for a drink?

that makes sense noise fan... how do you know how much money particular bars make?
Besides, who cares? Just because you're making money, should you have to give it to someone who is going to disperse it to rock stars who are already making way more money than you?
I hate ASCAP/BMI, but I don't particularly give a fuck about the Hiro. In fact, I kind of hope they do go away.

To: "it's not a different part of the business. The performance rights orgs make sure that the artists/labels get paid when their work is used. Posted by Anonymous | August 2, 2007 8:35 AM"

You are COMPLETELY 100% WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! It IS a different part of the music business. ASCAP has no contact with labels and could give a shit wheter or not an album is sold. Please STOP spreading lies in the comment section. Loser.

there's a difference between a sound recording and a copyright. just like there's a difference between a musician and a songwriter. go look up the differences and stop spreading misinformation until you know what's what.

who said anything about ASCAP giving a shit if the record is sold? I never said that.

Does ASCAP not send a label a check if they are the copyright owner of an ASCAP composition that is used commercially?

you're nitpicking because you are probably some asshole lawyer who works in some area of corporate music.

I like cheese.

I mean, I REALLY REALLY like cheese a LOT!

i'm not a lawyer, but I am someone who does know how the music business works. I actually work in indie marketing and have many friends across the board in the industy. clearly you don't have a clue what the hell is going on.

i forgot to add, YES...ASCAP sends checks to the copyright holders NOT record labels. The record labels should NEVER own copyrights. Artists who sign a deal like that are total jackasses who deserve to be ripped off.

i forgot to add, YES...ASCAP sends checks to the copyright holders NOT record labels. The record labels should NEVER own copyrights. Artists who sign a deal like that are total jackasses who deserve to be ripped off.

on a major label level, the label owns the songs.

That's who I was referring to.

that's just it...the labels should NEVER be copyright owners. It's unethical. Who cares though. Major labels as we know them will be gone by the end of the decade.

anyone know what the outcome of this was?

I saw your posts and it caught my interest. I actually provide In-Store streams with unsigned artists. I just cut checks to the artists. I keep it indie baby. if you know of any artists that want to get their music out there then let me know. We are also doing a compilation cd in the stores of the artists and cutting checks to the artist. We are changing the industry with unsigned music.
www.pureplaymusic.com

When a band comes thru my city and I promote their show I pay the band DIRECTLY for their performance.
Why do I have to pay those pigs at ASCAP? They claim to represent artist that can't be everywhere, Well they are not needed when I am dealing with the band and their management directly! The only instance is if the band plays a cover song. Which the club owner or promoter should be able to opt out if they don't want to have to pay those guidos' at ASSCRAP.