kenny's castaways treats bands like shit and should be burned to the ground instead of celebrated.

I have played at Kenny's a few times, and both the band and our fans had a good time. They treat bands fairly, we get paid, and decent drink specials. Much more than I can say for other small venues around town.

Kenny's press release (above) wheezes of desperation to be the new CBGB.

Been there to see a friend's band, they've never mentioned anything bad about the place. Seemed like an alright place to me.

I don't usually go for the harsh comments on these posts, but I think tonto has it exactly right. I played Kenny's once in the early 90s. I'd never been in a bar that charged a too-high cover charge for a bunch of no-name bands AND then tried to shake people down for a "drink minimum" when they weren't even sitting at a table. We apologized to everyone who came to see us, and I've never been back. I suppose they've stayed around so long milking tourists on Bleecker Street.

Note that their positive mention in the Times is from 1980.

went to see my friends play there; it was a rainy night and they brought about five people. the manager/promoter said "you didn't bring enough people to play" and refused to let them go on stage.

that's ridiculous.

Yeah, this place hasn't been relevent in 30 yrs....Burn it down..

No wonder Tonto is so negative: I would be mad as an owner if a band only brought in 5 people! Every time I played there, we had 20-25 people. Maybe that's why we were always treated right. If the band sucks and can't even draw their own friends, they shouldn't be playing! Kenny's asks every band for a minimal draw, it's a business after all. If the band lied about the number of people it can bring, who wants to let liars play and lose money? They are not the only club that requires a minimal draw.

I treated art and commerce equally, but if I band can't draw more than 5 people, it's not good art.

We would like to thank everyone (yes even Tonto) for giving us they're comments. Addressing the subject matter that Tonto and his friends stated. We are sorry that certain people may have been treated unfairly but that was and is not our intention. For the record...we aspire to meet and nurture as much talent as possible by offering residencies to new and upcoming bands. As a business, we try to get as large an audience as possible to help bands develop their following and create a community of musicians. As many of you know, places like Kenny's are rare nowadays and all we really want is to preserve the foundation of music & art that Kenny's was built on. We are very proud of our history and our legacy and we stand by it. We would like to ask everyone to email us with their comments and we will address each one personally. Our email address is info@kennyscastaways.net

Thank you,
Maria & Tommy Kenny
Owners of Kenny's Castaways

anonymous 5:24:

"if a band can't draw more than 5 people, it's not good art"

i'm the booking agent at a club in new york. some of the best shows i've seen here--and at other places--were criminally underattended. less than 5 people. sometimes i've been the only person in the room. we're not living in tulsa; there's a lot of shit going on in nyc, all the time, and sometimes people just don't show up.

how good the music/art is and how big the audience is are completely unrelated.

Wait, we are talking about the music scene on Bleeker street? Bleeker hasn't been relevant for 15 years... Come on guys!

kenny's castaways is like the hip version of wicked willies!!!

I guess basic spelling and grammar knowledge are not part of owning a bar.

Hey tonto, where are you a booking agent your garage on the weekends?

A local band can't get more than 5 friends to show up to a gig? That is a big warning sign right there.

Hey High & Matty...didn't you ever make a spelling or grammar mistake before? your comment is irrelevant to the topic.

"if a band can't draw more than 5 people, it's not good art"

almost all music nowadays isn't art, it's a derivative dumbed down for the masses to understand, as a lot of it is based on pop music.

true musical art belongs to those composing pieces with movements and operas. the ideas prevalent there are innumerable.

The idea that whether something is "art" is measured by the number of people in the audience is absurd.

One of the best concerts I've seen in recent years was an awesome all-star jazz trio of Zeena Parkins, Jamie Saft, and Bobby Previte--all amazing musicians in their own right. They absolutely shred through about 70 minutes of improvisation. The total number of people in attendance: 18. Fortunately, over 600 people have downloaded my recording from the web, so this awesome music hasn't gone completely unheard.

About 3 years before I saw 10,000 Maniacs at a sold-out Radio City Music Hall ('88 or '89), my friend John saw them in the Living Room in Providence. Total Attendance: 5.

Yeah High and Matty! maybe you can teach cheeseburger how to spell properly. Lets get back to the issue here.

my band also played Kenny's, and i totally agree with tonto. we played there 3 or 4 times and had a great turnout each time, so of course he didn't give us much trouble, but the guy (pete?) who books the place is a total douchebag. he berated the guy who played before us for not bringing down enough people, and he did this in front of a bar full of people. it was unprofessional and pretty disgusting. his behavior is atrocious, he's completely out of touch, and i stopped playing there simply to avoid the guy. he makes my skin crawl. he should be a door guy at a strip club, not a rock club trying desperately to be relevant. i hope someone shares this message with him, becuase he should be reminded of the fact that he's a douchebag. yes, kenny's is rare in the sense that you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger douche working in a music venue.

In what world do you people live in? Are you really going to preach that "art" or even "music" without an audience isn't the original drive. While its true that most "artists" create for themselves, isn't it also true that the essence of performing is to be seen and/or heard? Its like the question "if a tree falls in the middle of the forest and there's no one around, does is still make a sound?"

Don't kid yourselves here. Anyone who performs, likes to be seen and/or heard. What's more is they like to make money, and if that is what they are good at and they make loads of it, then more power to them. Bottom line folks, This is their "bread and butter", do you honestly think that they would be happy with 5 when in the past they played for thousands. If you do...then you really need to educate yourself of these industries.

I do think that the cover charge at Kenny's is too high for a bunch of no-name bands. If their lowered their cover charge, you can get more off-the-street traffic. Same goes for Arlene's. Last time I went there, it was $8 for a weekday show. WTF?

I have played at Kenny's and they required a minimum number of people. It's only fair IMHO. If a band agrees to these terms and fails to meet it, how is it the promoters fault? The band lied about it's draw. I am guilty of using gigs as a free live rehearsal, but I always choose dives that don't require a minimum.

I can understand an out-of-town band drawing 5 people, but a local band? Don't band members have girlfriends/boyfriends and a few friends?

In the 35 years I have been in the music business I have seen a lot of places come and go. The negative comments attributed to Kenny's Castaways could not be more off the mark.

People making these comments are not patronizing other bars in the neighborhood whose drink prices, cover charges, band policies and backdoor production/publishing deals make playing Kenny's a charm. How would you like to give up half your music publishing royalties for the right to play for free? Not at Kenny's!

It costs $100.00 a day to pay the rent on a 1 bedroom apartment downtown. How much do 5 people drink? It would not even cover the rent on an apartment. Still, I have never seen Kenny's refuse to let a band play, no matter how empty the room was.

Kenny's is not the new CBGB, it's not the new anything. It's Kenny's and it doesn't have to be anything else. Once there were dozens of places new bands could hone their craft to develop a following. Today, it's down to a handful. When these places are gone, look forward to bands assembled in a boardroom that lip sync pablum puke in an arena.

The owners of Kenny's could have torn it down and made a lot more cash in real estate while sitting on their asses instead of breaking them to put on 5 shows a night. If they were out for the money, it would be part of the new apartment building next door.

Over the last 40 years, roughly 72,000 sets have been played at Kenny's maybe 360,000 songs belted out over that stage. Imagine how many couples met there, how many people walking the earth because their parents met there. It doesn't get anymore relevant than that.

Even if you own a bar in Williamsburg, buy a MetroCard, come to Bleeker St. and soak up a little atmosphere!

And McDonalds has sold billions of burgers.

There's a reason most New Yorkers avoid that stretch of Bleeker Street.

Last year, I was part of a poorly organized party that was supposed to happen at a bar on MacDougal street. There was not enough room for all of us with the crowd already there, so I took it upon myself to try and save the evening for everyone who had trekked into the city. I ran from bar to bar, without much luck. When I ended up at Kenny's, the guy at the door, who was also in charge of booking I believe, was very friendly and accommodating. Since I was bringing a large group, he hooked us up, and gave us discounted covers. The bands that night were pretty good. The beer selection was good, and everyone had a great time.
I have no complaints about that place at all. It is nice to see places stick around when many of my favorite venues are long gone...Tramps....Wetlands...

Hey guys, freedom of speech is a beautiful thing. I am a musician and have played in a lot of clubs in nyc.in the last few years. So far, the friendliest places I have played have been Rockwood Music Hall and Kenny's. At both places, I felt welcomed, I made decent cash with no strings, and was asked back. I have played other places, which I will not mention on the LES & Williamsburg who the promoter took most of the cash I got from my friends who came to see me and pocketed it. I saw nothing even though I did all the promoting myself. The owners of Kenny's are very cool, they have always treated me with the utmost respect and I enjoy playing there. Congrats on 40 years.

Since Drewo opened this up...Does anyone really avoid Bedford and N6 or even just N6 for a night out in Williamsburg? Or is it because Bleeker Street is not trendy enough to be seen in?

we played Kennys's for over 10 years (1992-2002)
had some of the best gigs there and some of the worst, but always we had a great time, whether during the Knicks hartburn filled runs in the early 90's with people screaming out on the streets, our thursday night residency in '99-2000 to drunken St, Patty's day gigs with the place filled to the brim. Great Jukebox (Tom Waits, Raindogs), great bar tenders who always took care of us alcoholic muzo's and hats off to
Roger, who booked us knowing that we may not draw a ton of people all the time, but knowing we would entertain and hold everyone in the room once we took the stage. (holding people, entertained in a room =
more money spent at the bar = happy bartenders = happy owners = fairly compensated band.
Long Live Kenny's! Smells Like a Bar should smell like! BOOZE!!!!!!! LONG LIVE ONE GROOVY COCONUT!!!

So far, the only ones that have complained about Kenny's are the LOSERS that can't attracted a crowd more than five people. Makes sense, if they can't even get six friends to come out, they would be the type to whine on blogs. LOSERS. They have no friends, big surprise.

And for the records, I avoid both Bleeker St AND Bedford. Everytime I walk down Bedford I want to grab some scissors and give people decent haircuts. Both streets are overrun with poseurs.

a bar that has to rely on bands bringing their friends in kind of sucks. that means people dont go there unless their friends are playing. what kind of a bar is that? although ive seen it happen. christ ive seen cbs with like 5 people inside.

btw what kind of drink specials this bar have? 2 for 1 etc, how much is a

2:26 - how can you call people you dont even know losers? lot of artists are solitary people. just because they dont have shitload of friends and good haircuts dont mean they are not good artists or musicians. anyway, what is this a fucking popularity show, youre going there to see music not how many friends people have.

Promotion is an essential component of a successful career. Mailing lists, phone trees, ads, posters, cards, fliers email, blogs, web sites etc. Maybe you are a recluse and antisocial but you HAVE to let people know you are offering a show they would want to see. This usually starts with people you know but if you have gone through the trouble to learn your form of art well enough for public exhibition, just a little additional effort will keep it from being a total bust. Get the word out! If no one shows up, you didn't do part of your job as an artist.

the only thing that sucks about kenny's is the 18$ for a pitcher of yuengling. yuengling is shit beer and should be 12$ at the most for a pitcher of it.

By the way, Kenny's Castaways, in the early 70's, was located on the upper east side. I saw some great blues acts there, including the legendary Willie Dixon.
When the club moved to the village, acts like the Roches played there often before they got signed to Warner Bros.
In the early 80's, Pat Kenny ran a place called (I think ) First City. It was on 13th St and hosted an early gig by Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble. They had just signed to Epic and, when I arrived at the club, I was horrified to see reserved signs on every decent table.
I decided to ignore the signs and sat at a (reserved) table with my friend.
Pat came over and explained that we had to move. He was very nice (even offered to buy us drinks) but, on principal, I asked for my money back and split. We went over to the Cookery and saw Alberta Hunter; it was a good move.

i wouldn't be caught dead in this place

and i'm a zombie

grow up zombie or crawl in a hole with your diaper

My band, Cactus Life, played at Kenny's many times during the early 90s. A place like Kenny's is so important for giving young bands like mine and hundreds of others the chance to play in a great location on Bleecker St. and treating them fairly.

Like CBGB, Kenny's should be celebrated for the role they've played in promoting the careers (more like hobbies) of bands like mine. We never 'made' it, but we had a heck of time playing joints like Kenny's. So did our friends.

favorite memory: my keyboard player goes to pick up his melodica mid-set sometime in 1992, and drops it. Kenny's used to tape the shows for us back then, and the melodica breaking into all these pieces was captured on tape. priceless.

Hey Tom Maguire! Go sell your gameplan to Jandek!!

Bars with minimum requirements are pure bullshit. It turns this whole music thing into a housewive's candle party. these places are just holes with a microphone and a stage, and yea mr. cynical is right people who practice a performing art want to perform it in front of people. maybe I'm misreading but I read a really douchey tone into that. Of course you do. You want to see your shit take effect. And there's no one worse in the audience than a bunch of half-interested friends. and before the jerkface comments begin, it's impossible for a friend to totally appreciate your stuff. because they know you, and their fantasy life isn't in effect during the show. it's "my pal up on stage", and nothing mythic about it. Oh, I said mythic, and i bet someone's gonna take that a retarded way.

Kenny's I haven't played yet, and I will. I hate the candle party shit but it is NYC, and playing a kick ass show in new york is always worth it. I know a place where it's better than that. There's no cover and it's pretty loose, and if they like you they'll invite you back. you don't get paid, but you don't have to worry about bringing anybody. Funny how many more friends will come out when you don't have the stink of Kenny's enforced desperation. Popularity contests and bullshit like that. Never won one in my life. Douchebags. I can't believe the run of foolish and inexperienced commentary in this thread.

It's kinda uncool for Kenny to kick a guy out for not bringing enough people tho. Not saying he can't run his business any way he wants. I'm just saying it would be alot cooler if he let him.

oh yea...If you can pull yourself away from NYC for a while, and understand that you're not missing anything, look into Easton Pa. Why? Because from what I hear, there are several bars with a built-in audience looking for original acts, and there's enough of one that these places will pay for original acts and not expect you to promote. Sounds too good to be true, I know. I haven't looked into it yet. But I believe it.

p.s. tonto--shoot me an email, I'd like to see what your story is with promotions and such.

The problem with people who ramble on incoherently stream-of-consciousness from whatever comes into their head is that they usually have nothing to say.

Slim sounds like some never really good enough, one-deaf knda guy who was never invited to play in a band. there's no science to it, or perfect world, utopian place to play that everyone imagines....This thread i supposed, was about Kenny's Castaways' 40th anniversary, not about the state of affairs for bands/musicians/wanna-be's looking to gripe on about the piss poor treatment, turnout, smell, of their gigging experience. Sheeesh....

like i stated previously, I played Kenny's for over a decade. Had great shows, awful shows,
one time we pulled up to Kennys' on the wrong night and they still found away to let us play.
So let's keep it to the topic at hand,
Happy 40th Kennys'

kenny's suck. you all suck.
shut up

Hey J, What's a Jandek and why would I have to sell them on selling themselves?

I am new to the city and one of my first gigs was at Kenny's. The owner found me on myspace and contacted me. She asked me what I needed and I told her. She was in every way more than fair. Because I am new to the city, I didn't have anyone come to see me and she didn't even ask me. She offered me a residency on the spot because she loved my music. It sounds to me like a lot of you are griping because you have nothing better to do and maybe even are not good enough to get a gig anywhere. Such sour grapes. Instead of moaning about it, get a life and start practicing, gigging, doing something. Then maybe you can have an intelligent conversation.

I am new to the city and one of my first gigs was at Kenny's. The owner found me on myspace and contacted me. She asked me what I needed and I told her. She was in every way more than fair. Because I am new to the city, I didn't have anyone come to see me and she didn't even ask me. She offered me a residency on the spot because she loved my music. It sounds to me like a lot of you are griping because you have nothing better to do and maybe even are not good enough to get a gig anywhere. Such sour grapes. Instead of moaning about it, get a life and start practicing, gigging, doing something. Then maybe you can have an intelligent conversation.

I had a horrible experience here as well(similar to other posts). I'll never go back.

Anon 12:00 AM - oh man, you got us. you got us good. please go off and sell Jandek's plan. and i'll ignore you when you ask me for spare change next time i see you.

The problem with being in a band in NYC is that EVERYONE is in a band in NYC. This makes drawing people a very difficult task - especially when you're playing with any regularity. You can only drag your friends out to see your band so many times before they stop showing up because they've already seen you 15 times this year - regardless of how good you are.

And you can't get real people (fans not friends) to come out and see your stuff unless you're proclaimed "cool" or "hip" by bloggers and tastemakers. And doing that usually requires some kind of sideshow that makes people take notice. "Have you seen these guys? They have cheerleaders!" Ok, but how's the music? "Dude, CHEERLEADERS! And they have an hot asian girl playing the keys!"

Oh, and places like Kenny's aren't respected because they'll book anybody who promises anything close to a draw. And they actively solicit bands on Myspace asking/begging them to play their venue. Nobody wants to play a place that anyone and their mother can book.

I place it around the level of the Acme Underground (Ace of Clubs) on the scale of local NYC venues. Which is to say, pretty low. It's a shame because they really did do a good job of fixing it up inside.

Whatever the case may be, can we at least have the decency to spell "Bleecker" correctly? Thank you.

I've booked with Pete and he's fair and honest. He wants a draw of 25 people, and If you can't hit that number you shouldn't take the gig in my opinion. My band played at Kenny's a few times around 2000/2001. We stopped playing there because the bands that were being booked around us were really bad or just didn't show up. Plus we were the ONLY band drawing so we stopped playing there. Around 2005 my friend told me that they hired a new booker (Pete) and that Kenny's was a much better place to play. Since that time, my band has played at Kenny's many times and the improvement was quite noticeable. All the bands booked around us were great and the place was packed every time we played! It goes to show you one thing, the venue is only as good as it's booking agent. Cheers to you Pete for bringing back Kenny's to it's glory!

The man at the helm of Kenny's for the past few years is a kick ass guy and an honest one. I have encouraged many of my artist friends to play at Kenny's for a host of reasons, mainly because it's one of the last dirty, grimy, rugged, drink-filled rock n roll bars in the village. But the real reason I always sent them Pete's way was because I knew they would be taken great care of. And they have all been so grateful for the experience.

Kenny's is dead again. "The man" mentioned (Pete) in the above post had Kenny's buzzing for a few years. But for some unknown reason he was apparently let go. Not a very good move by the owners. Now the place is empty every time I walk by. What a bunch of idiots!

I used to play Kenny's a lot in the '70s as a sideman. I always got paid so don't really know much about how much the bands I was working with did or did not get paid. There always seemed to be lots of people there but I never knew how they knew about the gig or even if they were fans of that band or happened to have just stumbled in.

Years later I came in as a leader of some terrific bands. One time I had a guarantee which was unheard of there. It was a terrible march night, one of those nights with cold biting winds. No one was out and hardly anyone showed up. I was initially booked for 4 weeks on this one night. I had an all star band of jazz and fusion heavyweights but got canned that night because 5 people showed up in horrible weather.

A little later I did a jazz matinee on sundays there for a while.

I've never gotten the hang of promotion. I guess that's why I'm more of a behind the scenes guy. So I have mixed emotions about Kenny's. But I used to have fun playing there in the 70's.

Manual trackback: http://www.nycrhymology.com/new-york/airport-delays-kennys-castaways. Thanks, BV.