I think that 85% of all music fans are over the whole "selling out" thing. People understand that these guys need to make a living and find ways to stand out in an exponentially-expanding marketplace of talented bands (thanks to the internet).

i agree...when people hate on a band for making money doing what they love to do, it's probably cuz of jealously or dissatisfaction with their own life

congrats to BOH. Cash that check and write another album, please!

Did Band of Horses write that "This is Our Country" song too?

Isn't Wal-Mart an awfully inhumane corporation to be selling anything but poison to?

yes musicians have to make money but ...WAL MART??

I remember when Neil Young's song - "this note's for you" was the big indictment of his peers for selling their music (Eric Clapton) as soundtracks for Miller, Budweiser, etc. That was 1988 - a long time ago when artists had to worry about their record companies ripping them off... and not their fans as well.

Good for BOH. Maybe more people will hear it and begin to listen to better music. I mean, do we really need another Blink-baby band?

band of horses, 7.99 this week at best buy. iron and wine too.

agree with Anon 9:38. musicians need to make money, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. seems to me wal-mart is over the line.

Yeah, I prefer Target™. Much better deals.

maybe BOH will go on an itunes commercial...that should secure them top 10 download status lol

forget band of horses...the best ny band is playing at terminal on thursday

by the way BOH is a downer, the music was never good, making it typical that the mainstream would embrace it

Band of Horses Sells Out, No One All That Upset.

it bothers me though that walmart and target try to appeal to a so called "indie" audience and they pick an awful band to do it with...also what a terrible name for a band.

Congrats to Bidwell for taking a stand for WORKING musicians. For those of you who don't understand what it means to have to try and MAKE money from doing what you love, go cash your guaranteed weekly paycheck and buy yourself a $3 coffee from somewhere and contemplate that check not being there next week. The man is lucky enough to be in the position to get something more for his song than what he may get via the album. Maybe he needed to pay his rent. Maybe he has a child and he needs to buy food- or maybe he just wants to put the damn money in the bank and spend it on something he may want in the future. Who are you to lay claim to his career decisions? Don't like it, buy/listen to one of the other 16,000,000 artists out there...

I love this topic. There are two types of bands: ones that are trying to make art to connect with people emoitionally and disposable bands who will do anyhting to get heard and make money.

Isn't this the same Horse guy who flicked off some girl for filming him because he was tired of his music losing its "sanctity" and the over-exposure of Youtube or whatever, yet it's OK to ruin whatever fans might have assosiated with their songs by cramming products down their throats?

more here:
http://www.radcompany.net/Storys/TurdStorys/BandsInCommercials/CommercialBands.html

i gotta admit, i used to really like peter bjorn and john. but, now that i hear that damn song EVERYWHERE, it's become too much. there's a point where you can make money and not completely sell out. and yes, that's what you're doing when you license songs to wal-mart. don't give me this "gotta make money" crap. what are your expectations? you aren't going to make as much as justin timberlake. and are you not making A LOT more now than you were before you signed to sub pop. i know the answer to that because i've spoken with you before and after...

Who cares? These bands need to make money somehow after bums like me get all of their music online for free. There's a reason why the ticket prices for shows have gone up. Good for Band of Horses, Peter, Bjorn, and John and Of Montreal for cashing in and making SOME money off of their music.

All you idiots need to come to grips with the fact that the music industry is a capitalist business.

Bands have the right to do whatever they want with their songs, and I wouldn't use the words "selling out" to describe selling a song to a major retailer, but I do think that when a band chooses to work with a company, they send a message to their fans and the world that they support that company's practices. I see the fact that "The Funeral" is being used for a Wal-Mart commercial as much more of an issue than the fact that the song is going to be in a commercial in general.

Wal-Mart is known as a company that treats their workers terribly (low wages, awful benefits). Band of Horses has now voluntarily signed a contract with this monstrous corporation.

"Congrats to Bidwell for taking a stand for WORKING musicians"

Maybe he should take a stand for workers everywhere, that'd be a lot more respectable.

I think it's important to note what company you choose to license your song to, and Wal-Mart is probably one of the worst next to....say, Hummer?? (BTW good for the Thermals for turning that down)

Also, BOH are defending the right to sell out to a pile of shit comapany like Wal-Mart yet they only have ONE ALBUM??? They haven't been around long...and it's not like they've been working hard touring and just making a little money to get by and mediocre success and finally just said to hell with it, lets give our "art" to Wal-Mart for $$$...not even CLOSE.

Boo Hoo you poor poor poor broke band BOH, you only got signed to some nothing label (Sub Pop) and are just so down and out arent you?? Fuck you and fuck your tainted money, try not to spend it all on blow.

evil

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/02/070402fa_fact_goldberg

bulf is obviously an idiot. Did you get fired once from wal-mart or something? NEWSFLASH people : EVERY capitalist corporation is evil in some form or fashion...and why should bands care what these companies do? These bands are just getting paid for what they do, regardless of how many albums they have or how many years of "keeping it real" you stupid hipsters deem appropriate. In 30 years you all will be either playing golf in Boca Raton with a sweater tied around your shoulder or still working as a line cook at a Mexican restaurant run by Chinese people so what the f-ck do you care what BOH does?

$uckin' Dick$

Anon 11:29 hit it right on the head. Wal-Mart is a tremedous force for driving down wages across the globe. Birdwell's life as a "working musician" is a privilege.

Now I can totally play this album while I pee on poor people.

Hey guys...I heard Black Kids are going to be on the new Lexus commercials

If you don't like the way in which people making the music and culture you consume are used by/use soulless corporations for profit, stop listening to the shitty mainstream "indie" garbage that Brooklyn Vegan/Pitchfork hype.

Matthew Dear has a song in a Hummer commercial. I suppose he's a sellout too? Give me a break...

Anon 11:48:

That's just absurd and naive to say that all companies are just as "evil" as the other; the only universal characteristic you can apply to capitalism is that the MAIN priority of coporations is to make money.

You cannot deny that companies DO differ in terms of ethics, liability, morality and the manner in which they choose to make money. Yes some are the same, but some are different, it all depends. Your reasoning sounds just like an uninformed excuse.

The Thermals: same label as BOH yet they turned down a deal from Hummer cause they actually care about who their music is affiliated with.

BOH: Obviously doesn't care about their music or how they are viewed as artists from the public but care more about getting that much more money and success on top of how lucky they already are after working for such a brief amount of time.

Anyone and everyone knows that Wal-Mart has had a very negative effect on so many different aspects of this country. No need to even bother posting info, it's just known.

Well, that's kind of the point. The "values" formerly associated with "independent" rock have become seriously diluted, to the point where BoH can get away with shilling for Wal-Mart. And in the grand scheme of things, indie fans are probably better educated and make more money so it is obviously an appealing demographic for advertisers. Gross.

"EVERY capitalist corporation is evil in some form or fashion...and why should bands care what these companies do?"

Ridiculous argument. A) Capitalism isn't inherently evil, neither is every corporation or company. There are other choices among all companies vying for artists' works, an entire spectrum, some more or less amoral than others. Wal-Mart has a lengthy track record of abuses that no one should subsidize or support, which is exactly what this weak-hearted band is doing by handing over their limp music. B) "Why should bands care about what companies do?" An artist, like any human, should be mindful of where their dollar goes. Giving money (or art which can be used to make more money) to companies which we know to poison or corrupt -- be it environment or animal or laborer -- is just fucking ignorant.

I can already anticipate the childish comeback -- "Uh, dude, EVERY company poisons and corrupts. The world's fucked up. Evil is everywhere. Get used to it. Go buy a venti latte. etc etc blah blah blah."

This unsubtle reasoning is the reason why nobody cares about shit any more. It's the pathetic argument of someone who has surrendered.

A parallel: The air I breathe, the water I drink, the food I eat is mostly tainted to some degree with shit that'll kill me. But that soesn't mean I'm going to just say fuck it and eat quarter pounders and mountain dew everyday until I die of 15 cancers. That would just be spineless surrender, not the worldly, gritty realism you likely imagine it to be. You have choices.

Making money off your art is one thing. Making it with dignity is another.

check out this video:

http://thevacuumcleaner.co.uk/whirl.html

perhaps they can re-edit it with BOH's song....

Ok, first of all, its absurd to say that Pitchfork only hypes garbage....the majority of albums that they put on Best New Music are actually quality, despite the fact that they tend to disregard a ton of other quality music...Its almost become cool to hate on that website, when in essence it is just trying to review quality music...get over yourselves and stop trying to find the next "hip" band.

"Matthew Dear has a song in a Hummer commercial. I suppose he's a sellout too?"

Yes, worse actually. Thank you for giving me a reason to ignore Matthew Dear now.

I'm actually with Anonymous 12:05 on this one. The whole "indie" banner is a useless term anymore considering anybody on a "smaller" label can claim to be "indie" even if they sound like your local Lite FM station. The Sufjans and Bands Of Horses of today are the Dobbie Brothers and Breads of tomorrow.

It makes no sense for you to change your value of music based on a commercial...You obviously enjoy the song, its not played out to the death like something such as Young Folks... get over it...We live in an age where everyone knows about every band...YOU ARE NOT INDIE

And also, I do think artists would be smart to exercise discretion over which companies they sell their songs to. Wal-Mart is one of the last places anybody should sell their music to; I don't care how big of a check they wave in front of you.

The Shins are used in a supermarket commercial in Norway.

that's just it though. Having music that you know featured in a commercial or even in a movie will most certainly affect your perception of it, as well it should. That's sort of the point.
It's an artist's right to do that, but as soon as they do so they have no right to complain to me of the integrity of their work, because now target or Nike or Wes Anderson or whoever the fuck has some level of appropriation of that work in my head. I'll probably to continue to enjoy a song, but to say it isn't tainted is bullshit.
Bands that do this shit should just say "fuck you, I wanted money". Because maybe 1% of these bands are actually in the position where they NEED the money. I can think of dozens of musicians that NEED the money, but they're not getting offered shit. these guys aren't surviving on a one-night-a-week appearance at some shitty bar, they're on Sub Pop and sell a reasonable amount of records. If they need money they can tour.

Am I the only one who heard Wire on a commercial for Victoria's Secret? Ironically, it was a commercial for no-wire bras. They used the guitar riff from "I Don't Understand", one of the newer Read & Burn songs. Somehow, this doesn't really bother me.

But whenever I hear "Funeral" now, I totally think of Wal-Mart.

Don't think it will stop at selling rights. What happens when a company like Wal-Mart (or, you know, Google) pays for every part--recording, distribution, marketing--of an entire record, just for the advertising power?

I for one welcome our advertising overlords but not sure that everybody will be on board.

i think it's funny that everyone is very upset about Walmart and even mentinos their long list of abuses... but mentions none of them.

I think i saw one link to the New Yorker (please) - no one has really lambasted Target (well one person did sort of) or any other big box store (CostCo, Sams, etc) for essentially the same abuses.

I wonder where folks in the towers by their clothes, food, etc.?

I bet working folks, I mean working go to the "abusers".

anyone who'se ever burned a cd or downloaded a song has no right to criticize band of horses.

2:41- if you are really in the dark about the evils of Wal-Mart, just watch "The High Cost of Low Price". Or just look on the internet. Aren't you already there? Here: http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php

And who cares if "working people" go to Wal-Mart? They could afford to shop somewhere else if corporations like Wal-Mart weren't actively trying to keep the minimum wage down.

Besides, the "people in the towers" don't go to Wal-Mart. There's only one in the area, out past Prospect Park. Seems like you'd know that. Or are you commenting from Bentonville?

And The New Yorker isn't reputable enough for you?

Seriously, what are you even doing here?

"Anyone and everyone knows that Wal-Mart has had a very negative effect on so many different aspects of this country. No need to even bother posting info, it's just known."

You certainly cannot ignore all of the problems Wal-Mart has had when it comes to employee and public relations. However, you should keep in mind that any company of this size is going to have problems and will always have very vocal critics due to the sheer number of constituents affected by Wal-Mart. A large portion of these critics are somehow tied to various unions which Wal-Mart will not deal with. I believe that it is a smart business decision to avoid unions. Time and time again we have seen unions as the primary cause of bankruptcy for companies (auto manufacturers, auto parts, airlines, etc.). This is not a good outcome for the employer or the employee, so the market should decide wages for Wal-Mart. If you are working at Wal-Mart and think you are being treated unfairly, then find a job elsewhere. Simple as that.

Wal-Mart is going to have its issues and these have been well documented (and, like I noted, these problems usually come from very vocal special interest groups such as unions). But don't be so quick to judge the company and its affect on Americans. It provides everyday products at very low prices for a demographic that can only afford to shop at places like Wal-Mart. It is the largest employer in this country and no one is forced to work there. If you don't like Wal-Mart's practices, then you can get a job elsewhere. It's easy to attack a corporate giant like Wal-Mart, but it isn't as easy to imagine life w/o it. And I don't think anyone here can definitely say that it has a net negative affect on this country...despite what you read in liberally biased articles supported by special interest groups just trying to get a bigger slice of the pie like everyone else.

I can't believe it. I was joking about Bentonville, but CN HAS to be on the payroll. This is ridiculous. The negative effects that Wal-Mart has on its workers (and workers worldwide- why do you think their products are so cheap?), the American taxpayer (hundreds of millions of state-subsidized health care because Wal-Mart benefits suck), the environment and the economy are so many and so vast that it is impossible to catalogue and cite sources for them here. And of course anyone who does will be labeled a "special interest", union-affiliated liberal by people like CN.

CN, I HOPE you are getting paid for this BS.

P.S. Everyone watch "The High Cost of Low Price" if you haven't already. It's like a horror movie. But it's all based on facts which are thoroughly sourced here: http://www.walmartmovie.com/facts.php

yay corporate art

"I can't believe it. I was joking about Bentonville, but CN HAS to be on the payroll. This is ridiculous. The negative effects that Wal-Mart has on its workers (and workers worldwide- why do you think their products are so cheap?), the American taxpayer (hundreds of millions of state-subsidized health care because Wal-Mart benefits suck), the environment and the economy are so many and so vast that it is impossible to catalogue and cite sources for them here. And of course anyone who does will be labeled a "special interest", union-affiliated liberal by people like CN."

I love how close minded you are. You watch a special interest movie (yes, this movie is promoted by the unions) only pointing out negative things about Wal-Mart and are too bull headed to understand the other side of the situation. Of course the workers want to be paid more. But it is an unskilled job and Wal-Mart pays what it has to in order to employ people at its stores. If this is not enough, then those people should find a job elsewhere. As long as people are willing to accept what Wal-Mart offers in terms of wages and benefits, then why should they raise wages? And what would things be like if Wal-Mart went away tomorrow? I guarantee there would be a hell of a lot more state-subsidized health care benefits required. Don't get me wrong...there are certainly some negative aspects about Wal-Mart, but my argument is that there are also SOME positives.

And no, I am not on any payroll to discuss this. I just find it frustrating how 80% of this board leans left and does not listen to any other dissenting opinions...whether they are reasonable arguments or not.

hey stupid. you've never heard of my favorite bands, and they're better than your favorite bands. and I'm not tired of them either because you and your boring chatter and singalongs haven't killed them for me. the bands you like are ripping them off/or have been influenced by them in a geniune way. One by one, sites like BV picks up on it, or bands like Pitchfork mention them in passing as if they've known about them all along, but really no one's listened to them because you downloaded the entire catalog in one shot from Soulseek and skimmed the first 30 seconds of each song once.*** if you heard Band of Horses and really thought there was something there worth spending your precious listening time on, well viva variety. But really...Why do you want to pay all these middlemen for your Band of Horses fix? So in order to pay Band of Horses, you'd rather have the inevitable diminishing of your enjoyment of the music, so the money can flow through the ad agency, tv stations, Wal-mart, etc....I'm not so eloquent but this shit sucks.

and Radiohead is cooler than your favorite band.

***truly, I played a Wrens song off of a girls iPod for her, Hopeless (maybe their biggest song) and she didn't know what band it was. I'm really not a snob but I really was sort of taken aback as it was her own fuckin iPod****)

**** I'm sure if the tables were turned she coulda done the same to me.

I'm not closed-minded, I'm just not convinced that markets always work to the benefit of humanity. I'm also wary of anyone who throws around the term "special interest group" as some kind of credibility-undermining label. You can call anything a "special interest group". You could definitely call Wal-Mart that, and I'm sure they have plenty of lobbyists ensuring that their "special interests" are protected.

I don't need to listen to your right-wing, de-regulate everything, screw-the-worker arguments because I live in a world those arguments have created. I've heard those arguments over and over and over and over and over.

The fact that "The High Cost..." is PROMOTED (not produced) by unions does NOTHING to discredit it. Besides, I happen to think that unions are a GOOD thing. To keep people out of poverty as insanely huge, powerful corporations like Wal-Mart drive prices (and wages) down, shut out small businesses, and generally degrade the quality of life everywhere they set up shop.

This could go on and on, but I am satisfied that the majority of my fellow, "closed-minded" Brooklyn Vegan readers are ignoring you and at this point I am going to start doing the same. Unfortunately I don't get paid to troll on every blog that mentions Wal-Mart.

Whatever. You think unions are good. Fine. Keep bankrupting more American companies then...in the end, if there is no money, those benefits that are negotiated by unions end up being worthless. Believe what you want. I think a lot of people on this board would at least benefit from reading a dissenting opinion though instead of just agreeing with each other all the time when it comes to any economic or political discussion.

Yeah. Down with Unions. I love being taken advantage of by my employer, working 18 hours a day, no overtime, and making a quarter of what a union guy gets for doing the same exact job. Whoo-hooo!!

CN: Your "dissenting opinion" is common knowledge utilizing 1st grade mathematics and concluding with ignorance.

Ok, you got me, yes, low prices = less money spent on products.....but at what cost??? Is it really worth it to turn every small town in this country into a corporate replica just so we can all save 3 bucks on garbage bags? Are you happy living in such a sterile world? Are you against diversity and small business? Do you shop at Wal Mart?

Also, your regurgitated idea of "they can go work elsewhere" obviously shows that you have never been truly broke or down and out......did you ever stop and think that there are maybe some people in situations where finding a job elsewhere simply isn't an option?? Haven't you ever wondered why some people are working at jobs that most others scoff at (McD's, etc.)?? It just might be because they don't have any other choice. Know why? Because all the other stores in town where they might have been able to get a job were run out of business due to Wal Marts "low low prices".

Your ideal city/town must be the most boring place on earth.

On my perfect planet there would be a Starbucks on every corner and I shall call it "Manhattan."

"Because all the other stores in town where they might have been able to get a job were run out of business due to Wal Marts "low low prices". "

And you think the local mom and pop store that would still be open had it not been for Wal-Mart would offer higher wages and better health benefits? I doubt they would even offer health benefits at all. A large corporation can leverage its scale to provide better health benefits at a lower cost to its employees. Again, you fail to fully think through what the ramifications would be if Wal-Mart did not exist.

And my arguments are based on economic theory. Your arguments are based on emotion and a desire for a theoretical utopian society that does not exist.

I think it's obvious where BV stands on this Wal-Mart thing. I mean, could he have chosen a less-flattering, more-poopy-faced picture of Brad Birdwell?

Next time you're in a Wal-Mart and you're hungry, try the hot dogs at their hot foods area. I know you'd be quick to shoot that idea down but hold on. They're really delicious.

I worked at a mom and pop copy shop and had full health, vision and dental. Excellent insurance, and I paid nothing. I'm not saying this is normal, but it IS possible. If you work at a small business, you are more likely to be treated like an actual person instead of an interchangeable part in a business model. Wal-Mart's attitude toward its employees is always "take it or leave it", just like CN said. Of course this would make sense, as he probably works for them.

I worked at a mom and pop copy shop and had full health, vision and dental. Excellent insurance, and I paid nothing. I'm not saying this is normal, but it IS possible. If you work at a small business, you are more likely to be treated like an actual person instead of an interchangeable part in a business model. Wal-Mart's attitude toward its employees is always "take it or leave it", just like CN said. Of course this would make sense, as he probably works for them.

Here's a great series of articles on Wal-Mart from the LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-walmart-sg,1,1534896.storygallery

Not enough mention on this thread about how Wal-Mart won't sell any CD with a 'bad word' on it. They do sell guns though!

I did not just double-post that. Clearly Wal-Mart is to blame. And Band of Horses.

There is nothing wrong with low prices. I buy all my sporting ammunition from Wal-Mart. Buck season is approaching so now's the time to stock up people.

Also, Bow and Muzzle-loader season is extended a couple days this year because of the beautiful weather we've been having. That's just a tip I got from a good source. I know how Brooklynvegan likes to keep people informed about inside info.

ATTICA ATTICA ATTICA ATTICA ATTICA

I say good for BOH.
I want to know - how many of those passionately opposed to bands like BOH making a few bucks in a TV ad are actually out there working for a dime (and perhaps supporting a family), and how many are still in college living on their parents.
I sound like an old fart now that I'm 33, but my 23 year old self was very opposed to artists making money "selling out". Now that I have a wife and kid who really really need me to bring home the bacon, I'm much more sympathetic.

FYI, Bacon also reasonably priced at Wal-Mart.

Underpaid manufacturing workers need to bring home the bacon, too. Unfortunately Wal-Mart is driving their wages down, and BoH is doing their part to contribute to their success. If you have to get in bed with Wal-Mart in order to make a living as a musician, maybe it's time to give up on that fantasy.

And of course, there are lots of people who love and make music, but don't have the privilege of making a career out of it. Some of them probably even work crappy day jobs at Wal-Mart.

ANon October 8, 2007 5:15 PM

That's great the Mom-Pop copy shop provides you so many great benefits. Do you have a family or are you single like most of the angry folks on this msg board?

wal-mart + boh = shit. What is everybody trying to get to the bottom of here, a toilet? All adds up to me.

Single, no kids. Just like Brad Birdwell. Why does this matter?

FYI: CN's ideas are based on economic theory, not that other theoretical stuff.

Yeah, remember the Bill Hicks joke? Any "artist" that sells his music to a filthy corporation (and yes, capitalist competition IS inherently violent and dirty and morphs its victims into materialistic ladder-climbers) is not an artist at all and is unabashedly "suckin' Satan's pecker." Good ol' Bill.

I sort of hate that everyone is bustin' CN's balls so hard, but, um, wake up, brother! A truly educated man is a liberal one. And economic theory is for assholes. :)

For the record, I work two really enjoyable jobs with locally-owned restaurants so I can eat and pay my rent. I write songs so I don't go crazy.

Okay, I'm not sure what the family status is of either Birdwell bro, but I now know neither are named Brad. Still not sure why this matters though.

bull shit. im not over the whole selling out thing. i think its important for a band to be loyal to their fans. everything nowadays is about making money. i want to know my fav band is making music for me and not to support their new car. all u have to do is sign up with a good label and make money off records and merch and advertising companies. ok DONT SIGN CONTRACTS WITH DEPARTMENT STORES. its something called guitar center, fender, vans (yes the skate shoes) and companies that actually have something to do with rock music.

i wouldnt want my record being sold next to toilet paper. its like what the fuck man.