Posted in music | venues on February 29, 2008

Showpaper show

Last night around 11:15 pm, I got to the Market Hotel--a/k/a the 20 day-old all-ages space where Todd P and other DIY-minded folks have been booking rad shows, the same tremendously rad space where I snapped these nifty No Age pics couple Mondays ago--only to pull open its metal door and find the lights on, total silence, and a NYPD officer standing at the top of the stairs. Then, a frustrated bark: "We're closed."

It was supposed to be a four-band benefit for Showpaper, topped off by Ninjasonik and Team Robespierre. But according to a couple kids who'd already been inside (one of whom was Crowd-Surf Girl--her name turns out to be Stephanie), the bill didn't make it past the Vivian Girls before the po-po showed.

No official word yet what this means for the stellar line-ups scheduled for the next two nights (High Places/Lucky Dragons tonight; Ghengis Tron, Aa, Ponytail, Shooting Spires on Saturday), but as of this moment all the dates are still on the Market Hotel MySpace page. [Village Voice]

I just talked to someone else who was there when it happened. They said it got shut down around 10:30 and there were around 100 people there. The Vivian Girls had finished playing and there was a DJ on at the time. Scary part: supposedly anyone with a Showpaper shirt was told to stand against the wall. Everyone else was allowed to leave. They don't think anybody was arrested, but tickets were issued. It all may have had to do with someone drinking on the street. Lots of rumors (including the show possibly starting back up at 1am?) and not many exact details at this point.

The Vivian Girls @ Market Hotel (pre-bust), Feb 28, 2008 (Tod Seelie)
Vivian Girls @ Market Hotel

Just last week a much more packed Black Dice show happened at the Market Hotel with no problems at all.

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Comments (183)

What do they think this is, the 1980s? The days of the illegal loft shows are over. Saw so many good shows (and dance parties) in Tribeca/Soho back in the day, but the Williamsburg scene never had "it".

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 10:51 AM

Is tonight's show still hapenning? I want to see High Places & Soft Circle.

Posted by Eduardo | February 29, 2008 10:56 AM

me too! I'll be sad if I have to wait until April to see High Places.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 10:57 AM

come on people
what is the shock in an illigal venue (serving alcohol without a license at that) being shut down
you peeps are tards

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 10:57 AM

It's not that shocking, but it is sad.

It's a great venue and Todd P doesn't pretty great things for the DIY music community.

From what I've seen it's just a lot people coming together to watch music and have a good time.

Though you'd also hope that in such a large city cops would find more productive things to do with their time.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:04 AM

nice to see the NYPD cracking down on the things that really matter.

Posted by jp | February 29, 2008 11:05 AM

LOVING the Lego police helicopter!

Posted by BlackBubblegum | February 29, 2008 11:14 AM

DIY does not mean you don't have to play by the rules. especially when it's not REALLY DIY. having a blabbermouth, attention whore as the main man (todd p) and booking bands with no other goal than to land a slot on MTV (see bands on last night's bill) or get their pictures on blogs (ie BV)is NOT DIY. by the time your reading about DIY stuff on these blogs, "it's" long over.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:15 AM

you're pathetic anon 11:15 - seriously pathetic.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:16 AM

Yes, let's hate on DIY.

You're right, the 1980s loft scene was so much better. Next time, don't bother hiding behind an anonymous name, Michael Alig. I'm surprised they let you have computer access in prison. Just an update too for you, this particular venue is in Bushwick. Not glamorous at all. It's going to be hard for you to readjust to life in NYC when they eventually let you out. A lot has changed.

Posted by canuckcarnivore | February 29, 2008 11:17 AM

You should have waited a couple hours... A bunch of us (and a bunch of people that were on the bill and run the show) hung out down the street and then went back and did a show at the market hotel, it was awesome! Though it was really intimate and small at first, it turned out awesome!

Posted by Doll | February 29, 2008 11:28 AM

Dammit. This is like a 5 minute bus ride from my house, and I purposely passed over seeing Genghis Tron at knitting factory to catch em in a slightly off the wall venue.

What I love about it(and that area) is probably three blocks away someone was probably selling heroin on Broadway, but its easier going after the skinny teens.

Posted by Reg! | February 29, 2008 11:28 AM

The Market Hotel got greedy by selling alcohol. The greed did them in. They probably could have gotten by if they just had a normal show without booze.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:35 AM

so is the show tonight on? that would be great news.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:37 AM

I dont think they were selling alchohol.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:40 AM

this is not a shock at all. Todd P is an attention whore and all of his spots get shut down eventually.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:50 AM

These must have been the same fucks that ticketed me for drinking a 40 on the train a couple weeks ago.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:57 AM

Wait, how is Todd P an attention whore? Can you give me examples?


Also, if I was a show promoter I would think I would want some attention for my shows. I mean, that's kinda how things work right?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:59 AM

Apparently the venue is NOT shut down and the shows will continue as planned.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:59 AM

It probably didn't help that WNYU was giving away tickets.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:00 PM

"Apparently the venue is NOT shut down and the shows will continue as planned."

until the cops come back again during the next show.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:05 PM

It probably didn't hurt too much either...

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:06 PM

"It probably didn't help that WNYU was giving away tickets"

yeah, I'm sure the Bushwick cops listen to WNYU radio all the time!

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:07 PM

its the end of the month, maybe cops had to fill their ticket quota?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:11 PM

team robespeire and ninjasonik are two of the worst things going at the moment

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:12 PM

"its the end of the month, maybe cops had to fill their ticket quota?"

I can tell you that shutting down illegal night clubs is a top priority for the NYPD. It's not just some fluke... the last thing they want is to have a night club disaster on their watch and they will do everything they can to cover their asses.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:24 PM

^^ True Dat

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:25 PM

This is why "DIY" shows as better left to people with less concern for profits. Just saying, the folks are trying to compete with mainstream venues instead of providing an alternative. So they're gonna publicize and promote and try to make money and things get out of hand. Also, it's not the 80's anymore and cops really don't have much else to do besides fuck with people trying to have a good time.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:30 PM

it was a total bummer. i had just gotten a beer when that shit closed. its like the raddest space, too. the good Team would have turned it out there.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:36 PM

Firstly to canuckcarnivore-what are you a total fucking loser?? To make your point about illegal loft parties in the 1980's you bring up Michael Alig????? Clearly you were not only never around there during that time but you also have no idea about that time.

Second I love the pearls of wisdom from the Village Voice article

"Don't want to cause any unnecessary hysteria here, but in the interest of service, I gotta pass this along"

"No official word yet what this means for the stellar line-ups scheduled for the next two nights "

"If you want to hear music in places where you can loiter outside to talk on your cell phone, here's an idea: Manhattan! I hear the bouncers are really nice."

Since when did the Village Voice become an outlet for stupid hipster writing. Yes last nights raid is causing huge amounts of mass hysteria in the NYC music scene. I mean jeez you can't beat the line ups at this place. Certainly the cream of the crop of music innovators are playing there. What would we do without it. How would the music scene survive? The writer of this article is exactly the epitome of what is wrong with the NYC music scene today.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:43 PM

Todd P documentary type thing:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PJso0sAoous

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:44 PM

Dude, it's the Village Voice blog. Chill out.

I like a lot of the bands that play Todd P shows. I like Market Hotel as a venue. If you don't think those things are anything special, that's fine. Don't go to the shows. But also, don't get so bent out of shape about something written in the VV blog.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:49 PM

Dude, it's the Village Voice blog. Chill out.

I like a lot of the bands that play Todd P shows. I like Market Hotel as a venue. If you don't think those things are anything special, that's fine. Don't go to the shows. But also, don't get so bent out of shape about something written in the VV blog.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 12:49 PM

Todd P. is a cult leader. His minions are douchey.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:02 PM

no, his minions are sweet and cuddly. you just wanna pat them on the head and say "enjoy this now before you get a crappy middle management job and live in the suburbs"

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:04 PM

I was the DJ who was playing last night when the show got shut down. It was a huge disappointment for everyone involved to see the show shut down as it was clear upon our arrival that the crew had been there all day getting ready for the show.

Carlos from Bikes, Ruth from FF, Todd P, and the sound guy (whose name escapes me) deserve a huge shout out for getting everything going smoothly. Vivian Girls killed it as well.

As for the cops issue... those of you who are complaining seem like the type who are content to go to a bar, see a band, and go home. As someone who throws parties all over Brooklyn, I find it very difficult to sit through the countless shows where the bars rule and turn down the bands, or even worse yell at them during performances (cough Hugs). Todd P and John (from the silent barn) are doing a great service to the community by running quality shows with great bands and giving the underage kids an alternative to getting trashed at apartment parties.

All personal qualms with Todd that people here seem to have aside, you can't deny that he's doing a great thing for the New York scene by giving bands and DJ's like myself a chance to be heard by kids who really love the music and aren't just showing up for open bar.

Posted by Bradley D | February 29, 2008 1:06 PM

if a bunch of kids in t-shirts got tickets and then the show started again, it sounds like no big shit. i'm sure they'll have shows there again

Posted by shawty10 | February 29, 2008 1:11 PM

the cops were just there to show us they exist. some one doesnt like whats going on. they kept us against the wall for close to two hours. finally giving us summons after dicking us around and trying to instill fear, stupid cop shit. but not 30 mins after they left did the party go back on and we tried to get in touch with as many people as we could. ninjasonik killed it to about 40-50 kids. no cops came back, they came to scare us and serve us and they did that shit and they walked on. i highly doubt they will be back until bowery presents calls them again. they hate showpaper because it doesnt list their 18+ shows and it kills them that their show monopoly can never really become a monopoly. the market hotel is a space that tries to exist so us kids dont have to deal with the bullshit of bouncers and corporate douchebaggery. thanks to every one who came out to support showpaper sorry that you didnt get to see the rest of the show but we will try and make it up to you in the future, i mean we lost out on this to, we were looking to make enough money to print the next three issues. all of the money was going directly to paper. we are all just volunteers over here trying to make everyones lives just a little bit more fun.

Posted by edan | February 29, 2008 1:18 PM

anyone who thinks the best times for music or partying or anything at all were twenty years ago is obviously bitter and old enough to be a dad. and really, old as your ass is, if you came to one of these shows, people would totally be nice to you and you could even score it with a pyt

Posted by epitaph4myhrt | February 29, 2008 1:19 PM

I personally love bowery presents.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:20 PM

Anon 12:43, you're right, I wasn't there, but I saw Party Monster. And I recognize his (your) scummy hands typing from behind prison walls. YOU CAN'T FOOL ME MICHAEL ALIG AKA ANON 12:43. Keep your ad hominem attacks in the prison yard. You're a sick man and everything thats wrong with blog commenting today.

Posted by canuckcarnivore | February 29, 2008 1:21 PM

i hope my middle management job is at CVS.

Posted by edan | February 29, 2008 1:22 PM

It really upsets me that people would speak of Todd in such a manner. But its obvious that you dont know him. Hes one of the most genuine people left in the music scene. Todd has dedicated the last decade of his life to seeing that the diy scene stays as alive as possible. hes not out to make a buck - hes not out for any attention at all...(have you seen his website?!?! its the most bare bones/html crap youve ever seen! if he were out for attention, dont you think he might spruce it up a bit and look for advertisers that he could VERY easily get??) he supports bands/djs that would otherwise never get heard and even though nyc has relentlessly tried to shut him and his venues down, he doesnt give up.

last night was a shame. but its not gonna stop any of us. i mean, it did open back up around 1am and turn into an awesome party.

also---it was a benefit show. not one artist or dj was taking a cut of a single penny made. everyone was there for a cause. and everyone was there for the love of music.

Don't be a hater.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:23 PM

i think that whatever your personal thoughts are on any of the promoters, they all united for one common purpose...a benefit that is a great resource for all people looking for great live music experiences.

Its difficult to find ANY place that will allow great shows like this to happen...all ages is even harder...this show getting busted was sad because it only makes it continually more difficult to do great shows in brooklyn...DIY or not...once they close all the DIY places, you think kids will stop throwing shows?

last night was a lot of hard work in the making. All the promoters banded together to get the word out, donate equipment and get talent on. (if any of them were greedy money makers, think they would have really been involved???) The market hotel kids invited a horde of people into their home, all to keep the live music scene alive.

for those who bitch about them "selling out"...you think they are ruining the scene...well, its a big scene, get your shit together and start throwing shows...the more the merrier. in the meantime, awesome job to all involved: Tood P, Bikes in the Kitchen, Famous Friends, Brooklyn By Hand, Market Hotel, Vivian Girls, Ninjasonik, Team Robespierre, Snake says Hiss, Bradley D, Rage Mountain & FOTP.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:25 PM

"As someone who throws parties all over Brooklyn"

Any parties outside of Williamsburg? Any thing in Park Slope/Sunset Park? I like the types of bands that Todd P books, but I can't be bothered with going into Bushwick. Manhattan is sooo much easier to go see shows. Genshis Tron at the KF were great.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:25 PM

It really upsets me that people would speak of Todd in such a manner. But its obvious that you dont know him. Hes one of the most genuine people left in the music scene. Todd has dedicated the last decade of his life to seeing that the diy scene stays as alive as possible. hes not out to make a buck - hes not out for any attention at all...(have you seen his website?!?! its the most bare bones/html crap youve ever seen! if he were out for attention, dont you think he might spruce it up a bit and look for advertisers that he could VERY easily get??) he supports bands/djs that would otherwise never get heard and even though nyc has relentlessly tried to shut him and his venues down, he doesnt give up.

last night was a shame. but its not gonna stop any of us. i mean, it did open back up around 1am and turn into an awesome party.

also---it was a benefit show. not one artist or dj was taking a cut of a single penny made. everyone was there for a cause. and everyone was there for the love of music.

Don't be a hater. Support fun. :)

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:25 PM

preach on! did any of the bands play after 1?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:26 PM

like it or not, todd p and his staff of volunteers are helping support and maintain a vibrant and inclusive DIY community by putting on awesome shows not in your average rock club. now, bands that todd put on bills years ago are breaking into the indie/mainstream and bringing well deserved attention to bands that truly deserve it, which is rad but tough because of the shaky legality of warehouse parties in the first place. instead of bitching about stupid shit like fire exits and capacities and supposed profits from doing shows (anyone who has ever gotten paid out by todd knows that "profit" and how scant it is), take a step back and realize that todd has done good things FOR EVERYONE in our scene. you get to see bands before they blow up, for less money, in an ALL AGES, douchebag-bouncer-free zone, ALMOST EVERY DAY. and, if you don't like it, BOOK YOUR OWN SHOWS. as todd would be the first one to tell you, it's not that hard. and if you don't want to do that, wait a year. they'll be at bowery soon.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:27 PM

I highly doubt that Todd P intended to "compete" with more legit venues under the guise of DIY in the name of making a profit. He's been around for 7 years now and his shows have always been the best around so naturally they rose to the top. And there's nothing wrong with him making a little money, every other promoter does. I think the practice space he runs is his main source of income. I've played his shows in the past and he always pays bands way better than legit venues and is totally transparent about the money.

People can say whatever about him but it is obvious to me the guy has his heart in the right place.

Posted by My cows | February 29, 2008 1:28 PM

if not for bowery presents i would never get a chance to see Sia!!!!!!!1 then id have real problems

Posted by freezingsNthawings | February 29, 2008 1:30 PM

I don't understand the Todd P hate. Sure, he books a lot of crap bands, but he books a lot of great ones too. He does bite off more than he can chew though, he shouldn't be booking shows that drew several hundred people. I have been to a couple of shows that were closed by the fire department.

The one big thing that I don't like about Todd P is that all his shows are in Greenpoint/Williamsburg/Bushwick. If you don't live in that area, it is hard to get to. Spread the DIY love elsewhere.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:32 PM

Hi, I'm in the Vivian Girls, and up until the moment that the cops broke up the show, it was awesome. I really wish Ninjasonik and Team Robespierre could have played, it would be have been really fun (and from I heard, they might have actually played later on?)

I live and do shows in New Brunswick, New Jersey, where Cops show up at 10 pm for every show (thus lots of noise violations), and I have never seen this much hate for the people putting on the shows. Sometimes cops just show up...it happens. The point is that some people are willing to put it all out there and have awesome, possibly illegal shows because it's fun and gives people things to do. If you aren't willing to risk yourself so that others can have a good time, that's ok, just don't badmouth those who are.

Todd and his interns are great people who have nothing but the music at heart. I hope nothing bad happens to the people at Market Hotel, and that they can continue to put on great shows (for everyone, including you.)

Katy

Posted by Katy | February 29, 2008 1:33 PM

i agree!- there are a lot of people putting forth a lot of effort to make something happen at the market hotel- and playing there or seeing a show there is a million times better than doing the same at some lame ass club in the LES or off the bedford stop. all those places are screwing bands and audiences alike. i hope all holier-than-thou haters are comfortable with their criticisms because they are busy planning awesome loft parties to keep the underground music scene in NYC going.

Posted by NITES | February 29, 2008 1:38 PM

Bradley D
couple of points to be made

What Todd P and others are doing is great but its nothing earth shattering or new. It has been done before.

Underage kids will always find places to get trashed and great for them having another place to do it but discerning music folks they are not. Kids will jump around and go crazy to just about anything these days hence the glut of not such great music being made masquerading as innovative and "killer" Not to mention the way too many people with laptops who suddenly fashion themselves DJ's

While I enjoy places like SIlent Barn or Market Hotel at times, I also enjoy seeing bands play at established venues. I actually like to see as well as hear the music. Ya know like a place with a raised stage and a sound system that has been specifically designed for the space.

It is not an either/or thing.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:38 PM

to the person who supposes that these shows are not DIY - what the fuck are you talking about? getting publicity on a blog not run by a huge company is DIY whether the band is low IQ pop punk or a more interesting act. as long as we are not having our art chosen for us by corporate bigwigs and advertising analysts, i think DIY is working. if you haven't noticed, most booking in nyc is predictable and boring. todd is helping us to stay inspired during the bush reign. irving plaza and luna lounge are not.

Posted by K | February 29, 2008 1:39 PM

the location of the shows makes sense. rural brooklyn allows for affordable spaces with 35% less police action [whatever happened last night is pretty abnormal]. i don't know why yall are still trying to live and party in manhattan--brooklyn's where america's at!

Posted by optimus | February 29, 2008 1:41 PM

I was one of the people who was held by the police last night at Market Hotel, along with five others, including Todd. I was bartending, and I think the police were roughest with us initially, yelling, and cuffing my friend who I was working with. One of the officers had a baton that the seargeant in charge was not aware of, one that he utilized, in my opinion, quite abusively. This is particularly important because if they knew what kind of establishment they were entering, as they claimed they did from knowledge of Todd's website and his shows, they should have known that we were docile, fun loving kids. But 30 to 40 minutes afterward, when things had cooled down, they were calm and collected with us, simply doing their innane, dull job. The cops were people; one of them, hilariously, even mentioned that Korn's first band was called LAPD. I think a more thoughtful question to raise in a forum such as this is the reason for their presence in the first place. What was their motivation for entering the Market Hotel at a small, completely donation, volunteer based show for a newspaper organized and funded completely by people who support corporate free, all ages music in New York City? Possibly it was the illegality of certain aspects of the space, which I whole-heartedly acknowledge. However, in comparison to the level of other forms of illegal activity that occur in this city that seems unlikely. They didn't even check our bags! I could have been moving ounces and pounds of any drug of my choosing! I would like to consider thier presence was due to the fact that this venue threatens the tight knit ring of venues exclusive to people who can afford to pay 15-30 dollars for a show, and who have an id that deems them 21 years of age. Places where community is a foreign word and the name of the game is money.

Posted by Gabby | February 29, 2008 1:43 PM

The Market Hotel! How quickly we forget the amazing No Age show we saw only a few weeks ago. Cops are scary? Ok Fine. Get over it! Its going to be Ok.
I have absolutely no doubt that the Market Hotel is going to be, if not already the next most amazing show space and there will be no interruptions next time Team Robespierre and Ninjasonik come to play.
DIY: Do it yourself! That’s what we do. We are organized and volunteering to keep this scene alive. Some of us are 9 to 5 professionals still working to make it all happen especially Todd P.
This would be the longest message ever if I went through all the different parts there are to putting events on and making them as cheap as Todd P does.
Try not to judge so hard when one night something goes wrong. For those who were bummed out…We were too! Because the thing some of you forget is the WE that put these shows together are YOU! We are on the same side fighting to make it all work!
Be constructive! Give advice if you think you have it to improve a show, even though we probably already thought of it we will always be there to listen. To you and your thoughts BUT most importantly TO LISTEN TO THE MUSIC!

Posted by Queen of NFPs | February 29, 2008 1:43 PM

"I think a more thoughtful question to raise in a forum such as this is the reason for their presence in the first place."

Do Happy Land, The Station and Cromagnon ring a bell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:52 PM

i dont really think a disco from 30 years ago has shit to do w/ this

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 1:58 PM

1:58 - heh. Agreed. Let's stay on topic. FWIW, the market hotel does have exit signs.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:02 PM

OMG GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK. STOP THE FUCKING INSANITY PLEASE.
You idiot hipsters think you invented the DIY scene. You think you are doing things that have never been done before. You think you are the first people involved in underground music venues who have been harrassed by the police.

All these pontificating comments are making me lose my lunch. It is as if the music scene started in the last 7 years or something.

Guess what.

There are plenty of ways to find out where bands are playing these days not just some zine you are creating.

People who go to see Radiohead are just as much doing it for the love of the music as the 40 or 50 who saw ninjawhatever "KILL" it last night. As an aside, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, stop saying every band killed it. Trust me they didnt and you look like an idiot saying they did.

Todd P is just as guilty as the established music venues of putting on many boring and repetetive shows with the same bands over and over and over.

Please get over yourselves

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:03 PM

I wouldn't get high and mighty on the non-corporate sponsors, ect. Have a look around this blog -- see any banners? The problem with Todd P shows is he is deliberatly trying to compete with Bowery Presents, ect. in a "DIY" setting. Just always seems like they're trying waaayy too hard.

Anon 1:38pm -- you hit it on the head. "It is not an either/or thing."

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:05 PM

Re: Last Night's Show

First off I think it needs to be made clear what the intention was. Last night a bunch of great local talent came together to put on a show where 100% of the proceeds were going to go to Showpaper, which is a free bi-monthly, ad free newsletter that lists all ages shows across the tri-state area. Four of Brooklyn's biggest promoters of all ages shows (Todd P, Bikes in the Kitchen, Famous Friends, and Brooklyn by Hand) worked together to put on a super fun show to support Showpaper which is a great service to our community as well as those in the immediate area. All ages and DIY shows are extremely important in terms of fostering creativity and community. The great thing about DIY shows is that people can take more creative risks with their music in an inviting and accepting environment with their music/performance. At DIY venues you are not obligated to bring a certain number of people or else you won't be able to come back and perform which is the case with most bands starting out trying to play the regular venue circuit. If five people show up to your show, guess what? Thats five more people who have heard you play. That is awesome. Getting a certain number of people to your show should not be on anyone's mind when they are trying to create. The DIY/all ages scene also fosters community in that if you go to enough shows you start seeing the same friendly faces and people. This eliminates the feeling of being self conscious in a room full of strangers for some and allows them to be more likely to freak out, dance like an idiot and not care about it, and have a great time. It is very rare that you go to a show at Mercury Lounge or Bowery Ballroom and see anyone dancing and not just nodding their heads with folded arms. And that is fine if that is how you want to experience music, it is great that NY has so much to offer. But the alternative also needs to exist. How many times have you been herded in and out of those venues like cattle? Live music should be a fun experience, you should be allowed to hang out with your friends and the bands after the show, getting stoked on what you just saw, supporting people doing something all around. Most importantly, if you were into music when you were younger, remember when you couldn't get into shows with your favorite bands due to the venues age restrictions? It was frustrating and nonsensical to you if you really were into a band and couldn't see them live. All ages shows expose kids who are hungry and not yet jaded to new ideas and experiences in terms of what music can be, and if we are going to perpetuate these ideals and new progression of music this is a base necessity to all this. So before you are so quick to malign the efforts of those working hard to keeping these ideals going, please take this into consideration. Everyone involved with last night (especially Todd P who has been doing these kind of shows here for seven years) was about supporting this great music community that we are a part of. And if you truly love music you can't hate on that.

Posted by Jay Buim | February 29, 2008 2:05 PM

keep your radiohead you fairweather johnson

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:05 PM

radioheads new album kills it

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:09 PM

Where can I pick up Showpaper? I have never seen it and would love to read it. (I don't live in Williamsburg)

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:11 PM

If it was a firecode issue, the fire department would have came, not the police

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:13 PM

showpaper can be found in williamsburg bushwick greenpoint and, for you manhattanites, the L.E.S.

Posted by shawty10 | February 29, 2008 2:19 PM

no one is claiming they "invented" diy. Diy is one of those things that takes cultivating, dedication, and effort.

Todd P is willing to put in that effort, and he doesn't make money in any serious way, at all. Ask anyone who's worked for him or any band that has gotten paid by him at the end of the night. Why hate on the guy for working really hard on something altruistic?

As for the attention and the press, it's not Todd P's fault if magazines want to write articles about the guy. Maybe it's because the writers actually believe in what he's doing? It's not as if he asks for the coverage.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:22 PM

to 2:03pm,

no one on here is acting like they (or Todd P) invented the DIY scene.

No one has said these are the best bands around.

No one is acting like the scene is only 7 years old.

No one is acting like this is the only way to enjoy/discover music.

This is just people having a good time. With music. NOTHING ELSE DUDE.

So relax, lay off the OMG's, and just stop reading these types of entries on this blog. I promise you won't lose your lunch.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:28 PM

Anon 2:28pm
obviously you did ignore all these entries cause if you didnt you would see that the majority are trying to claim all these things. If i were to ignore these type of entries i would be reading like 2 comments on this whole thread.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:33 PM

"showpaper can be found in williamsburg bushwick greenpoint and, for you manhattanites, the L.E.S."

So you can only get the paper if you live in one of those select neighborhoods? I thought Showpaper was "a free bi-monthly, ad free newsletter that lists all ages shows across the tri-state area."

So it list shows in places that do not get Showpaper? Is the tri-state area WB/GP/Bushwick according to Todd P?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:34 PM

I'm an attorney and I'm offering free legal services to anyone served with a summons last night.
Email me at nyctaper.

Posted by nyctaper | February 29, 2008 2:37 PM

jeez it sounds like cops were there to ask for a payoff.

not to put too fine a point on it, but i can pretty much guarantee far greater offenses going on at the myrtle/broadway intersection. but i wish we knew what initially spurred them. somebody said it was for drinking on the street, but there are tons of people drinking on the street around there. it's the cornerstone of the local economy.

you gotta laugh tho at people who would deride ToddP on the BV web site. is this where you go to find out what's happening in your own city?

Posted by Jimmy Legs | February 29, 2008 2:38 PM

I did read the comments.

Praising Todd P for what's he's doing does not equate to people thinking he invented the scene.

This is what these kids know. This is what happened last night. The cops showed up. At a Todd P show. So we are going to comment on last night and his history as a promoter.

You're the one who went all caps describing these comments as "FUCKING INSANITY."

Really? Just go and relax. Take a break and go somewhere quiet to calm yourself down. I think you need it.

Posted by 2:28 | February 29, 2008 2:39 PM

i saw some issues of showpaper at bard the other day...

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:40 PM

"i dont really think a disco from 30 years ago has shit to do w/ this"

"1:58 - heh. Agreed. Let's stay on topic. FWIW, the market hotel does have exit signs."

Yeah, The Station fire in Rhode Island was soooo long ago!

The cops are doing their job. The venue is illegal. What part of illegal do you not understand?

I like Todd P, but you can't put on DIY shows for a thousand people. You will get caught. Uncle Paulies is more his size.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:42 PM

showpaper lists shows that are in cities that do not get showpaper, but distribution is getting better and wider all the time.

Posted by K | February 29, 2008 2:43 PM

Showpaper is distributed in several towns in stores on Long Island, some spots in Westchester, and a bit in Connecticut.


Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:44 PM

Showpaper is also distributed in New Brunswick, Asbury Park, and several other spots in New Jersey

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:46 PM

Cool! Where can I get Showpaper in Park Slope?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:49 PM

ninjasonik performed at 1 am. it was crazy. good times.

stop the hate. todd p keeps it real with people who keep it real with him.

get off the blog and get on the block.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:51 PM

Jay Buim,
I think A lot of what you said is valid but i disagree with a few things

As with any creative medium, the art you make should in some way take into account the people who will be viewing it.

WHile DIY fosters a friendly and family atmosphere, so do going to established places. It is called being a community of music lovers and especially live music lovers. I go to shows both in established places as well as DIY places every week almost every night. I see the same people at shows in both these types of places. I have made some of my best friends meeting them at these shows. Established places have the same dynamics as the underground ones. You have the section of people going nuts and flaling around and you have people who stand with arms folded.

I do have a question though. Let's say these kids are good people who are there simply for the love of the music. We provide them with this great service of being able to see bands they love for free or much less than an established venue. Then how come they don't spend some of the money they save on buying the music of these bands they love so much and who for the most part self release their music instead of illegally downloading it. You would think these selfless only there for the love of music people would want to support these bands directly. I am sure the bands would not mind that, huh?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:52 PM

^How do you know they aren't buying albums? I go to silent barn and buy cds of the bands i see?

Also, lots of times i wont buy an album at a show because i just paid to see that band live. Im not rolling in cash. This goes for Silent Barn, Market Hotel, Knitting Factory, and Mercury Lounge.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 2:58 PM

if it's all for the love of music and "DIY", why do they sell liquor without a liquor license? Sounds like they are trying to profit like an established venue without going through all of the expensive bullshit one must have to be legal.

If they want to do it without making money, fine. But if you're trying to make money, than you are no more "DIY" than a lot of established venues.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:03 PM

"^How do you know they aren't buying albums? I go to silent barn and buy cds of the bands i see?"

No offense but the fact that you do not know this makes it pretty obvious that you do not play in a band.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:12 PM

Not for nothing but I saw some homeless guy on the L train the other day trying to to sell copies of Showpaper instead of Street News. So yeah it looks like Showpaper is really starting to enter the zeitgeist

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:14 PM

Anon 2:28, seems as if you need to read things better and more clearly.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:20 PM

Anon 3:03 makes an excellent point. Maybe these shows would benefit from no booze? (ha - lets test the DIY ethic then)

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:25 PM

You're right I don't play in a band. I guess you do, and you'd know who's buying what better than I would.

But I think you are generalizing that the kids are going to the shows for the love of the music (granted you're right that a lot of those comments have been made here) are hypocrites because they aren't buying music.

Coming from the viewpoint of a show-goer and not a band member, I can say that I go to a lot of shows (of bands I really like), but don't always buy albums. Some people just like live music. Some people just want to go out and have a good time at show. Some people place more importance in being drunk at the show instead of buying the cd (ive done this, and i think a lot of others have too). It's just the way this goes, DIY or mainstream. It's what happens at show, all ages or 21+.

At least you're exposing kids to your band even if they aren't buying your cd that night. Isn't that the idea of touring? Yes, sometimes some of those kids are going to download your album. It's going to happen. But kids can love this "scene" (whatever you want to call it), and it might not just because of your band, or one band in particular.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:30 PM

the venues have donations bars because they want to do diy shows without *losing* money, not to make money

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:37 PM

"Since when did the Village Voice become an outlet for stupid hipster writing."

When it was founded by Ed Fancher, Dan Wolf and NORMAN MAILER, the original hipster.

numskull

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:38 PM

i can't understand people shit-talking this scene
it may not be all music i like but i can say with certainty that it's not being done to make a buck. except for benefit shows, the small cut of the door not paid directly to the bands is given to interns/volunteers for their time

things may seem more official than shows at other great diy spaces in nyc, but that's because the audience here is significantly larger. you can't help but take precautions in that case.

drinks are served, but not only is it technically donation only (and ids are checked at the door of any show) but nobody is kept from bringing their own alcohol

if you're going to blame anybody, blame the people who treat this as one of new york's big three that can afford to pay people whose jobs depend on keeping the street clear. todd p interns work very hard, but they still get a hard time. if anything did it, it was somebody who refused to disassociate themselves with the space when they were loitering/drinking/whatever

this is a total community here and todd works the hardest but it relies on so many people. thank the market hotel kids for letting todd use his space and having people in their house until 5 am as well as every other group of kids kind enough to let you hang at their houses making a bunch of noise and leaving your trash everywhere
the market hotel
death by audio
the silent barn

i wish i had it in me

if this was about self-promotion, there'd be no showpaper.

davidbilmas

Posted by bilmas | February 29, 2008 3:38 PM

I love how you don't actually address anything I brought up.


Do the kids out there thinking that Team Robespierre kills it every time bother you that much?

Posted by 2:28 | February 29, 2008 3:38 PM

"Sounds like they are trying to profit like an established venue without going through all of the expensive bullshit one must have to be legal."

I agree 100%. Serving alcohol is what is pushing them over the line. You want to showcase underground music or do you want to be a rock venue? Choose.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:39 PM

^People like to drink. They are providing beer. I appreciate that.

Also, don't they sell drinks so that they can try to break even/pay everyone who needs to be paid?

If that's the case, it seems logical to me. Right?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:46 PM

all of these places allow you to bring in your own, so what is your problem with a beverage stand? this stuff is risky and expensive in NYC and whatever meager profit a donation bar can make can offset the ridiculous expenses it takes to do these kinds of shows.

Do you know how expensive it is to pay the electricity on a commercial space the size of one of these places? how much to acquire / maintain the PA system? how much to fix all the shit that gets broken? how much to have the many, many large garbage bags of beer cans hauled away after each and every show?

The trash alone is can be like $300 a weekend. check Craigslist if you doubt it.

I think the kids who run these spaces do enough by relinquishing their privacy and letting hundreds of people trash their houses at these shows, by spending hours setting up and hours cleaning up.
They shouldn't also have to lose large amounts of out-of-pocket cash.

This is why so many of these places run donation bars, solely there for people who don't feel like walking to the bodega and buying beer there. Why not provide the convenience and make a little cash to cover expenses in the process?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:51 PM

Check out Todd P's site, toddpnyc.com

Specifically "so - bit o trouble at the Market Hotel last night, so things are changing regarding 2nite's show - it's moving to SILENT BARN. things remain a little unclear as to future shows scheduled @ MARKET HOTEL...PLS - DON'T HANG OUT / DRINK ON THE SIDEWALK OUT FRONT!"

The last part, drinking on the street (along with talking loud and going around the corner to piss on the sidewalk), are two big reasons why parties Rubulad and 3rd Ward gets shut down from time to time. Parties at both those places at least started out as DIY. Every party Rubulad has had in recent memory posts the same message at the end of the invite:

"You can help us continue to have a Rubulad in this space by being quiet coming and going, staying inside the space during the event and not pissing all over the sidewalk as soon as you get around the corner – which, incidentally, does attract the police and they will write you a summons. The less our neighbors have to complain about, the more fun we can have."

Maybe the cops came because of that? Just speculating, I wasn't at Market Hotel, never been there.

Posted by Sha-na-na-nonymous | February 29, 2008 3:52 PM

thsi just in, if anyone cares, tonights show got moved to silent barn.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:52 PM

Just to be straight up about stuff, people know that incredibly bitter, aged men who own established businesses with names like "Jelly NYC" and "Scenic NYC" and "Bowery Present" all post on this board and all are capable of quite a bit of dirty pool, such as "talking shit on message boards" and "calling the cops to have rivals shows shut down"....

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:55 PM

where the fuck did all the republicans come from? and when did you start copting underground music?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 3:58 PM

"Do you know how expensive it is to pay the electricity on a commercial space the size of one of these places? how much to acquire / maintain the PA system? how much to fix all the shit that gets broken? how much to have the many, many large garbage bags of beer cans hauled away after each and every show?"

--then don't fucking do it. don't bitch about having to pay to put on shows...

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:02 PM

"--then don't fucking do it. don't bitch about having to pay to put on shows..."

for the LOVE, motherfucker! what did you do?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:07 PM

hey, could someone please explain to me why these guys are in the wrong for trying to make their show spaces sustainable?

Any reasonable person understands that if they consistently lose a lot of money at every show they put on, eventually they won't be able to keep putting on shows. We are dedicated, idealistic people, not martyrs on the fucking cross.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:10 PM

this is the faggiest, dorkiest conversation...who gives a fuck? what a pathetic little indie page 6

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:17 PM

nobody cares... other than the dumb kids who will come and jump around to any shit band on stage - only because they can get away from their parents and drink and smoke cigs. it's not about music. that's all it is and all it's ever gonna be.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:20 PM

Would you be referring to selling liquor and beer without a license at an illegal venue?

Seems like that is a much better way to not get shows to happen.

if you're really concerned about the bottom line, jack up the door price and sell sprite.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:21 PM

Ha ha! I live around the corner. I called the cops. I'll do it again. Fuck you stupid rich white turds.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:22 PM

AWSOME
not awsome with the whole market hotel thing
but awesome that it's at silent barn now
so much easier to get to
does it mean it starts at a normal time now?!
like 8

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:27 PM

nyctaper might be the coolest dude of all time...for serious

support the dude's site!

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:30 PM

I never really understand how people get so excitable and vitriolic about this sort of thing. Does it really matter whether the DIY scene is better or worse than 20 years ago, or the bands are better or worse than bands playing other, more established venues (or if, in fact, a lot of the same bands are playing both, but for cheaper and for all ages at DIY spots)?

Market Hotel and the people involved are just providing one option for New York concerts that a lot of people enjoy. If you don't enjoy it there are plenty of other options, but if you do, than yes, it's too bad when shows get shut down. No show-going audience deserves to have their shows canceled like this, regardless of where they're happening...

Posted by N | February 29, 2008 4:32 PM

Oh, and for my part, I'm much happier to be a part of a cheaper, non-corporate experience so if a place like Market Hotel goes, there really would be something lost.

Posted by N | February 29, 2008 4:35 PM

As awesome as the business model of "let everyone do anything, drunk" when you want to put on sustainable shows, using intuitive logic, usually "charging money" has to come into play.

Lets go to the charts:

cost of Jay Reatard show:
Todd P- $7
Bowery Ballroom - $12

cost of No Age show:
Todd P - $8
Bowery Ballroom - $13

cost of Islands show:
Todd P - free
Bowery Ballroom - $18

cost of Xiu Xiu show:
Todd P - $8
MHoW - $17

cost of Dirty Projectors show -
Todd P - $7
MHoW - $15

Also, the alcohol at his shows generally cost from $3-5 as opposed to the general $6-infinity.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:36 PM

the people running the shows got greedy and got fucked. Greed and disgust!

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:39 PM

See the post directly above yours, Anon 4:39. Yeah. Those greedy bastards, charging half price for a perfectly good show.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:42 PM

Legal venues pay taxes, insurance, licensed bouncers, tons of overheard. It is not all profit. Illegal venues do not pay taxes.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:48 PM

last I checked, promoters like Todd P take 10% of the door price to cover their expenses. Do the math, if you charge $7 and there are 100 people (which is about an average show), you've made $70 total. That's not exactly making bank. A lot of shows bomb too, so you're making $20 or nothing or losing money.

explain to me why these people are greedy assholes again? because it doesn't really add up. Looks a lot more like the money is a fairly small afterthought.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:49 PM

"Lets go to the charts:

cost of Jay Reatard show:
Todd P- $7
Bowery Ballroom - $12

cost of No Age show:
Todd P - $8
Bowery Ballroom - $13

cost of Islands show:
Todd P - free
Bowery Ballroom - $18

cost of Xiu Xiu show:
Todd P - $8
MHoW - $17

cost of Dirty Projectors show -
Todd P - $7
MHoW - $15

Also, the alcohol at his shows generally cost from $3-5 as opposed to the general $6-infinity."

-- which is great if you don't mind questionable (at best) sound and not seeing the band. i mean, who really needs a stage anyway? i'm not saying those bowery venues aren't overcharging, but i do value good sound and actually seeing the band i'm seeing. right?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:53 PM

do you work for Bowery?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:56 PM

taxes to support the iraq war? fuck that!

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:57 PM

Actually, Market Hotel has a pretty good, elevated stage. It's a small stage compared to the Boweries or whatever, but it does the trick. Decent sight-lines at the No Age show.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 4:59 PM

I'm well aware that there are quite a few actual sound people around these parts but I think more than the majority of people can't distinguish. In addition, I've seen a handful of awful nights of sound at clubs with their million dollar systems.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:00 PM

"Just to be straight up about stuff, people know that incredibly bitter, aged men who own established businesses with names like "Jelly NYC" and "Scenic NYC" and "Bowery Present" all post on this board and all are capable of quite a bit of dirty pool, such as "talking shit on message boards" and "calling the cops to have rivals shows shut down"...."

^^^the quote above is the most illuminating and intelligent thing I've read on here all day.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:01 PM

Also, I don't think its a stretch to say that the Bowery Ballroom doesn't need four licensed security guards nightly.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:02 PM

most people don't know shit about sound. most who bitch about sound quality are just trying to sound "in the know."

the best sounding shows I've ever been to are in small spaces where bands regulate there own levels and there are no soundguys.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:03 PM

5:03 - you are so right

Posted by K | February 29, 2008 5:09 PM

I just like to hear what I pay for. Nothing more, nothing less. If it means I must pay a bit more to hear it and actually see the band, I guess that's what one's got to do. Not to mention having to travel to the middle of nowhere spots in Bushwick.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:26 PM

well dude, for many many people, middle of nowhere spots in Bushwick is home.

The Market Hotel has surprisingly good sound and nice sight lines.

The Silent Barn is a play on the floor kind of situation, but hey it's a punk space. It does sound pretty good in there.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:30 PM

At least High Places are playing Knitting Factory in a few weeks. Bushwick is just a PITA to get to. No offense to those that live there (although I wouldn't).

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:36 PM

wow, this is really long. let's summarize while hitting on all the previous points:

blah, blah, blah. the end.

Posted by burp! | February 29, 2008 5:36 PM

not everybody can live in moneytown, my friend

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:37 PM

hilariously, High Places will play through the exact same PA at Knitting Factory that they're playing through at Silent Barn tonight.

also, the worst sounding High Places show I've ever seen was at Knitting Factory - when they played with Casiotone for the Painfully Alone. Some soundguy didn't get it, miked their PA, and cranked an awful, awful sounding mix out of the Knit system. It sucked.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:43 PM

Personally, I hate the KF, but it still better than going to Bushwick. I wish Todd P would do shows in other hoods.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 5:54 PM

I think that High Places whole thing with their sound system lugging is pretty awesome. At Market Hotel a couple weeks ago they were way louder and fuller and clearer than No Age or Rings. I mean they are totally dependant on it. I saw them play at Blender, and the sound guy had no idea what to do either. It's like a complicated band like MBV trying to use Hootie and the blow fish's sound guy. Zero understanding of their music, you know? I actually think for the most part they sound really good live.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:07 PM

It's funny how people keep accusing bowery Presents people from commenting here (which is so fucked-up and paranoid), while most of these comments (and ones on the other related posts) are obviously from Todd P or his toadies.
Why are you people so fucking defensive.
Did you ever think that maybe the cops were doing their job? Do you really think it takes the owner of another venue to get the cops to shut down an illegal space?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:25 PM

"It probably didn't help that WNYU was giving away tickets."

Yea because we haven't been giving away tickets for todd p shows for at least two years at this point and have had a huge effect on whether or not the shows get shut down.

What I feel like is the biggest problem with this situation is that the only really viable way to get the word out about these shows is the message list and website - which anyone can access, including the NYPD, whom I'm sure has known about Todd for a long time. I can't think of an easy solution to this - maybe keeping it only to an email list and not to a website? Revealing the venue the day of through email blast? all of these could work.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:26 PM

Can't someone be supportive of Todd P without being his toadie?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:29 PM

Uh, undercover cops just don't arbitrarily show up to things. It takes premeditation.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:31 PM

can't someone criticize Todd without being accused of working for Bowery Presents?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:33 PM

local cops from the local precinct are the ones who shut down spaces for neighborhood complaints.

undercover squads from other boroughs do not regularly seek out small Brooklyn house parties to shut down unless they've been tipped off / directed to do so.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:49 PM

^Good point. But then whats your beef with him?

Dont like it, then dont attend his shows.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:50 PM

the only reason that folks think the hate on this thread is coming from Bowery / Jelly / Scenic / etc is because it so often stoops to outright untruths and low blows in order to dis Mr P.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:53 PM

local cops from the local precinct are the ones who shut down spaces for neighborhood complaints.

undercover squads from other boroughs do not regularly seek out small Brooklyn house parties to shut down unless they've been tipped off / directed to do so.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 6:55 PM

anon 6:53
yeah like having security straight outa rikers
HAHAHA
i rememeber i saw that and just had to laugh
yeah ofcourse i mean if ex riker convicts = short cute lil boys, or adorable sassy girls

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 8:19 PM

What time did Daft Punk go on?

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 9:42 PM

1:00 AM. After LAPD.

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 10:17 PM

thanks for ruining new york, current generation

Posted by Anonymous | February 29, 2008 11:12 PM

we just gave you fucks somewhere to go that wasn't the stupid corporate trash your generation feeds upon. thanks for ruining our fun.

Posted by Anonymous | March 1, 2008 2:48 AM

someone said publicizing it by other means, it will never work. You think band like Black Dice or Aa or Zs would ever agree to something like that? I don't think so. Plus the technology now is just ridiculous, are you gonna ask people not to post the news on the blogs or message boards too? So, I think the cat is out of the bag.

Also to that someone who compared the prices, I think you are being little unfair, because Bowery is not the only game in town (thank god). Knitting Factory is usually cheaper, just check out last nights show High Places was 7 bucks, they are playing KF next month w/ Health and thats only 8 bucks. Plus there are some fucking amazing places that are about the music that rarely or never get mentioned here like the Stone, Issue Project Room, Midway, Southpaw, Union Pool etc but whatever, thats a different scene I guess.

Also DIY whatever, I really dig what Todd is doing, but come on he COULD put a little more effort into his stuff. He is doing it part time, whatever, but dont tell me DIY means you have to do everything half assed. Just look at what Hilly Kristal and Michael Dorf were able to do with their thing back in those days.

One last thing- Market Hotel is right on the M line. Guys, there are other trains than the L, just look on the map.

Posted by Anonymous | March 1, 2008 3:35 AM

all of you fucking people that come on here just to talk shit about todd p really need to get a life.

I bet none of you could actually do the fucking shit hes doing.
With setting up all of these shows for barely any money & making them all ages.

sure some 14 year olds just go so they can "get away from their parents and smoke cigarettes all night" but there are also a lot of older people that go because they actually enjoy the bands and the atmosphere, because its always great.

So if you're on here to criticize people for their taste in music or to talk shit about todd p who puts in a lot of time and effort into making these shows happen, you really need to get a fucking life.

& Maybe you should come out to one of his shows and see how much of a good time you have, because regardless of whether you like the bands that he books or not, the shows are always fun

Posted by dsfsdgasdsd | March 1, 2008 5:23 AM

dude you sound like a broken record, and all the people with this "well dont criticize todd cause you aint doing it yourself". by that logic we could never say anything about everything.

Like "dude this slice of pizza sucks". well. "DUDE if you dont like it why dont you make your OWN pizza". "you just gave me a shitty haircut!" = "if you dont like it why dont you just cut your own hair!" - you see how stupid that kind of logic is?

Posted by Anonymous | March 1, 2008 10:58 AM

I don't work for the Bowery, KF, etc... I don't even work in the music business. I like Todd P, I like the bands he books, he is is trying to go to far. He wants to be DIY, but at the same time, he wants a full set of bands, full bar, DJ between sets ... hmmm sounds like he wants to be a venue. You can't expect to operate an ILLEGAL venue and get away with it. Local taxes don't pay for Iraq, they pay for your local fireman, someone that will help you in a venue that wasn't certified or that has insurance. There are so many other DIY shows in the city, but they are very small in scale. Putting on a show at 3rd Ward for a thousand people will get you busted (like the last Lightning Bolt show). I rather people extra money and have the show go to completion.

Todd P's best shows are one he finds local legal venues and puts on shows like Don Pedros or Uncle Paulies.

"One last thing- Market Hotel is right on the M line. Guys, there are other trains than the L, just look on the map."

The M train only goes to Lower Manhattan. I guess all the people that live on Wall St can easily get to the Market Hotel. There are other neighborhoods in NYC besides Williamsburg, Greenpoint, and Bushwick. According to Hopstop, it will take me 1 hour 12 minutes to get to Market Hotel. Knitting Factory is 39 minutes. Hmmm, guess which one I prefer to go to.

Posted by Anonymous | March 1, 2008 11:59 AM

Hum where are you coming from? Im gonna guess you take the E to knitting factory. Just transfer to F on W 4th to the M on Delancey. It's really no that bad. It's also a pretty quick tranfer off the G line.

Posted by Anonymous | March 1, 2008 1:31 PM

i don't see any reason to hate on someone for booking shows in an alternative venue. it just goes to show that no matter what you end up doing, someone is probably going to find some reason to bitch or be jealous about it, even if it is a positive thing.

i think a lot of people take the fact that so much good music comes through town for granted, and don't realize that the more options that people have to see a show, the better off everyone is.

Posted by Cradge Mackerfraller | March 1, 2008 3:38 PM

for the record the Market Hotel is on the J,M, and trains - all of which go to Williamsburg and the LES in 4 or 6 stops.

It's also a reasonable walk from a G train stop and a kind of lengthy walk from an L stop.

Posted by Anonymous | March 1, 2008 6:38 PM

Anybody know why all the cops there were from internal affairs?

Posted by anon | March 2, 2008 4:06 AM

it's the transfers for that train
and the schedule switches like whoa
and the line is like a freaking u
so it is a lil limited
but not enough to miss out on a good show at a good space
and isn't it only market hotel that's jmz for todds shows the rest are L stops with a few blocks to walk or non

Posted by Anonymous | March 2, 2008 10:30 AM

knitting faactory's kinda ruling these days if you haven't checked out their calendar lately - i hear the the head booker lady came from portland where she ran a kinda todd p thing there for years (where todd p came from), and todd p's partner books there now too ... maybe people like that can make the knitting factory back into the innovator it was when it opened 20 years ago?

Posted by Anonymous | March 2, 2008 4:54 PM

last nights show was rad...
the market hotel lives on!

Posted by Anonymous | March 2, 2008 5:20 PM

good to hear 5:20

Posted by Anonymous | March 3, 2008 1:26 AM

the J train is pretty standard schedulewise. Comes as frequently or more so as the L. It's a straight line from the LES to Bushwick / BedStuy (and beyond).

The M goes there too, spur line that goes deeper north into Bushwick and Queens.

It's a decent walk from a G train stop too - Myrtle Willoughby.

I'm not sure what 10:30 is talking about.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2008 11:39 PM

"It's a straight line from the LES to Bushwick / BedStuy (and beyond).

Just because someone doesn't live in WB/GP/BW doesn't mean they live in the LES. If you live in Harlem, it means taking the A to the J to the M (which doesn't go into Manhattan at night or on weekends). With the way the MTA works, good luck doing it in less than an hour and a half. Even coming from other parts of Brooklyn like Park Slope is a mess. As long as bands play multiple nights in the city, and we can avoid Bushwick, things are good.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 12:00 AM

maybe Harlem is the lame nabe, and not Bushwick? Have you considered that?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 1:50 PM

I don't live in either Harlem or Bushwick, but at least there are a few nice blocks in Harlem. Bushwick is 100% ghetto.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 2:05 PM

The Market Hotel is on the J train and is at the terminus of the nighttime M train. One does not need to transfer to the M to get there, you are misinformed.

The JMZ stop is directly across the street from the building. It's also on the G train (4 blocks) and it's 7 blocks (kinda longish) from an L train station too.

Just to provide comparison:

Warsaw is 11 blocks from an L train and 3 blocks from the G train

Glasslands is 12 blocks from the L train, 15 blocks from a G train, and 11 blocks from the J and M trains

Death By Audio is the same location as Glasslands

Europa is 2 blocks from the G train and 15 blocks from the L train

Studio B is 5 blocks from the G train and 13 blocks from the L Train

Silent Barn is 2 blocks from the L Train, 11 blocks from the J, and 6 blocks from the M train

Bowery Ballroom is right at a JMZ station, 3 blocks from a BD station, 9 blocks from the NRWQ, 5 Blocks from a 6 station, and 4 blocks from the F and V

Bowery definitely beats everyone train connection wise, but amongst Brooklyn places, it would seem that the perception that places like Silent Barn and Market Hotel are "hard to get to" is pretty much psychological. What's the real difference between 10 vs 20 minutes sitting on the train, when the walking is in fact a lot less?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 2:14 PM

"Bowery definitely beats everyone train connection wise, but amongst Brooklyn places, "

Some of us are not comparing Market Hotel to Brooklyn places, but to Manhattan ones. Knitting Factory is convinient, Irving Plaza ain't bad, Bowery is good. Market Hotel is far compared to those places. Add in the fact that you can only connect to the J at far downtown stations, and you will see way many prefer Manhattan venues.

Plus, you get to avoid Bushwick.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 2:29 PM

only rich Manhattan fucks are afraid of Bushwick.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 2:33 PM

Irving Plaza is terrible in every possible way except location.

In fact, that holds true for pretty much everywhere in Manhattan (perhaps excepting Cakeshop, Bowery B, and sometimes Knitting Factory).

Most Manhattan venues are tense, uptight places with overpriced tickets, overpriced drinks, cramped quarters, bad attitude staff, and weak / uninspired booking.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 4:14 PM

"only rich Manhattan fucks are afraid of Bushwick."

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Just get a job, easy as pie.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 4:32 PM

^Yeah, but does that job make you not an asshole?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 4:47 PM

average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in Manhattan South of 96th St:

$2,500 p/ month, $30,000 p/ year

median pre-tax personal income for individuals over the age of 25 in the USA:

$32,140 p/ year

sources:
http://spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/business/30673/youd-be-a-brave-man-to-bet-against-rupert-murdoch-or-michael-bloomberg.thtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

so, if you can find away a pay no taxes and survive on $2140 a year, then living Manhattan is TOTALLY within the reach of the average person.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 5:47 PM

easy as pie? you are an arrogant ass. I will bet you $20 that your parents were in the top 25% of wealth when you fell out of your Momma's twat. Don't try to tell me that didn't give you an incomparable leg up on achieving your lavish Manhattan life style.

Not everyone can be so lucky, but many in your privileged position would at least acknowledge the advantages they were born into - particularly before disparaging the work ethos of those less fortunate

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 6:08 PM

Monday's Jurassic Park performance went great. that's two big big nights with no fuzz. Market Hotel is back!

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2008 8:55 PM

"I will bet you $20 that your parents were in the top 25% of wealth when you fell out of your Momma's twat."

Sorry if I am a couple of days late responding, but I have a job.

When can we meet up, because you owe me $20. Both of my parents were poor immigrants who came to this country with nothing but a few dollars and an elementary school education. I lived with two other siblings in a small two bedroom apartment while both my parents worked, my father always working multiple jobs. I worked my ass off, studied hard, and now I am reaping the rewards. The solution really is easy, but it is hard to execute. All you have to do is work hard. My first job offer out of school was more than my father ever made. And no, I don't work in finance, and I never have.

And I have played with different bands at Todd P venues. And I don't live in Manhattan. But I still dislike Bushwick.

Now where is my $20 bill?

Posted by Anonymous | March 7, 2008 3:44 PM

"all you have to do is work hard"

an easy statement to make when you are lucky, intelligent, and from a functional family - oh and did I mention? - LUCKY.


Posted by Anonymous | March 7, 2008 8:36 PM

the system totally works, except when it totally doesn't work.

Posted by Anonymous | March 7, 2008 8:38 PM

Legal developments today:
http://www.nyctaper.com/?p=180

Posted by nyctaper | May 13, 2008 12:01 PM

Oh man I missed a No Age show.
Lame.

Posted by krissy rubbles | March 2, 2009 11:08 PM

Having gone to these types of venues in NYC for the past 10 years I have notices a large uptick in the number of people now going to them due to the promotional efforts of ToddP. Shows are no longer by word of mouth of free but advertised on the internet for all to show up. The space never had a proper Public Assembly Permit which includes a fire alarm, emergency lighting, sprinklers etc. If that place ever went up inflames there would be a large loss of life. There is a reason why legit venues cost what they do, its because of overhead of permits, safety, liability and insurance, this is something that ToddP never bothered with so in some ways his shows are over priced.

Posted by nick | April 12, 2010 12:05 AM

thank you a lot's man

Posted by منتديات | February 22, 2011 5:34 AM

thank you a lot's man

Posted by برامج 2011 | February 22, 2011 5:35 AM

thank you a lot's man

Posted by كازنوفا | March 2, 2011 4:33 PM

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