hey, those dudes are gay

can you buy tickets in advance for this?

for the whole tour?

for cake shop

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2008/05/nyc_popfest_jun.html

Damn it...is this band afraid of anything but the East coast of the US?? wtf

If there was ever a band to make me feel like an uninhibited 15 year old, this would be it. A cople years ago at the Knitting factory was one of the most fun shows I have ever been to.

I would like to see them, but I would never buy a ticket in advance for the Market Hotel. Odds are good that the place will be shut down by the cops before the band even hits the stage.

except that's only happened once in the existence of it so far - and the band ended up just going on later in the night in that case......so uh, go fuck yourself and your bowery fearmongering

just because it happened once does not mean that it won't happen again at any time. The place is completely illegal... and the cops are on to that. "bowery fearmongering"? again... Todd, you really are a paranoid fucker. You need to get a life and stop waiting to see who is commenting about you on brooklyn vegan!

do you seriously think Todd wrote that? you´re a dumbfuck.

Webster Hall was shut down one night 2 and a half years ago, on the anniversary of Happyland.

I guess you should never ever go to Webster Hall.

Oh, and Luna Lounge got shut down, and Glasslands was once, and Death By Audio, and Soundfix, and Union Pool, and...

I guess you should never go outside, the place you go to might get bothered by the police! Oh no!

and Secret Project Robot a bunch of times, and Midway aka Scenic aka Rehab, and the Tank, and Rubulad, and North Six (at least three times), and Goodbye Blue Monday, and Micheline's, and Union Hall, and....

anywhere can get shut down. There are laws that apply to clubs, sure, but really it's the cops' on the scene's perogative. If they don't want a place doing what it's doing anymore that night, they shut it down. It's not like it's a legal thing they invoke, they just use the threat of worse things they could pull in order to force a venue to kick everyone out for the night.

The only places that never get shut down either have corrupt, big time crime connections (see: certain large venues in Greenpoint run by Eastern Europeans) or else have ridiculous money and hence huge legal budgets (see: Bowery Presents, "Live Nation", etc).

So you can limit yourself to mafia-owned clubs, or to corporate-owned and proto-corporate-owned ones if you're so afraid, but you could also just chill out and take your stick out of your ass. Shows rarely get shut down, and when they do, you were there for history. Plus you can look for yourself in all the blog photos the next day!

(a) market hotel has only been around for a couple months, which means it has at least a couple more worth of life in it before it either gets uppity and starts throwing its own shows without todd p or in some other way loses out to the next todd p venue

(b) how dare you disrespect the all-hallowed off-the-beaten-path underground-house-show loft space??? you must not really like music. if you really liked music, you wouldn't say these things. so that means you must NOT really like it. must not REALLY like it.

¡Lo cerraremos para tragar el 13 de junio!

1:30: this post makes no sense at all.

(a) 140 --> really? i was so proud of it, i read it like twice. i swear to god i'm not even being sarcastic. not EVEN being sarcastic. NOT even.

(b) would you mind reading it again just to make sure? maybe you didn't read it closely enough the first time.

here's a better, more provactive question.

if everybody is aware that these fly-by-night spaces don't necessarily follow every rule (or at least haven't been sanctioned by the powers that be), and going to them means accepting that not every safety measure is being taken, or at least hasn't been verified by the authorities - if the people who go to these places know this and willfully take the risks, then who are the cops or the fire department to say "no, you can't go in that place?"

Gee, I thought we lived in a free country. If I choose to take a (supposedly) (slightly) bigger risk and go somewhere that the governemnt hasn't checked out and signed off on, then so what? Who are the police or the fire department to tell me I can or can't do something that could only potentially hurt me and the other people who've chosen to take the risk?

Maybe you think this is all libertarian hokum, but what about the fact (not conjecture, absolute truth here) that rules and regulations on an industry are often proposed by and written by the current existing monopolists in that industry. In other words, the people who are making money off of rock shows (or any industry) already, often create new rules and new building code intended to make it harder to get new, competing venues off the ground.

There are lots of examples of their system not ensuring safety at all - look at the Great White fire, the Chicago night club fire, all the scaffolding collapses around the city - all of these happened in places the government said were safe and ok.

So why respect their system? It's corrupt and anti-compeitive and is built to keep power and authority, and money, in the hands of those who already have it. If you feel like diy spaces are unsafe, don't go to them. If you think all of that legal safety bullshit is overblown, go. But it's none of your business, or the government's, what anyone oes that doesn't endanger anyone but themselves

1:40 and 1:51

a good first rule before you decide to post something is to either have somehting sincere and hopefully interesting to say, or else, if you're a merry prankster, to come up with something insincere that will push buttons and get the fire breathers out to post.

you think you were doing the latter, but see, your post didn't do either. not provocative on any level, just a string of poorly chosen words. Wasted time and energy, mostly your own.

plus at house shows they're cooler about if you need to pee out the window

that's 1:30 and 1:51, not 1:40

which is why the only people that don't like the "illegal" shows are people with invested interests - or people that are just into following all the rules.

yay for both groups there.

(a) 2:04 --> yeah i guess you're right.

glad you came around!

not gay, Swedish

if something happened to anon 1:57 at one of these shows... I would bet that he would be the first one lined up with a lawyer to sue the city for not protecting his safety>

you can't sue the city if you get hurt on soemone's property, you can only sue the property owners.

these laws initially come into existence after accidents, not because of lawsuits against the city or the state, but because of populaist politicians who sieze the moment for political gain.

The laws then get "improved upon" and bloated over the years by people who have a vested interest in making it as difficult as possible for anyone new to get a space off the ground.

"you can't sue the city if you get hurt on soemone's property, you can only sue the property owners."

First of all, you can sue anyone for anything. How far your lawsuit will go is another matter. If your lawsuit is fatally flawed, a judge will dismiss it at the first opportunity. (The defendant still has to get a lawyer to represent him/her/it, though.)

Second of all, IIRC, people who were affected by the crane that toppled two months ago in midtown are suing the City as well.

You would get nowhere with a lawsuit against the city for failing to enforce against a venue that never submitted to inspections of any kind in the first place. Where's the official negligence in that case? nowhere. And you can't sue the police for failing to enforce.

besides, lawsuits aren't what drive these laws into existence, populist politicians and industry lobbyists are.

and anyway, are you saying you endorse our over-litigious society as well as our over-regulated business environment?

I'm grown up enough to say outright that both are fucked, and I'm not a Republican or even a libertarian. It needs to change, or the whole concept of small business will evaporate. The system is explicitly designed to raise costs and prop up existing monopolies, as well as to provide upper-middle-class employment to a lot of so-called professionals: architects and plans examiners and inspectors and contractors and expediters and insurance agents and attorneys.

so why participate in it?

These "illegal" shows are a perfect example of the spirit of just saying fuck all that, whether the people involved are aware of the ideological minutia or not.

those people hurt by the crane incident (are *hoping* that they) have standing to sue the city because the city issued permits allowing the contractors involved to build as they did, and the premises were inspected by the Department of Buildings. Even so, there's little chance that lawsuit will actually get anywhere.

There would be no shadow of a chance of getting anywhere with a lawsuit against a space that was never permitted in any way by the city in the fisrt place. Where would you have any standing to sue the city in that situation?

that is to say there'd be shadow of a chance of getting anywhere with a lawsuit AGAINST THE CITY on an accident at a space that was never permitted in any way.

you could certainly try to sue the proprietors of the space, and more likely, the landlord of the space.

*no* shadow

"There would be no shadow of a chance of getting anywhere with a lawsuit against a space that was never permitted in any way by the city in the fisrt place. Where would you have any standing to sue the city in that situation?"

The police have been there once. A plaintiff's lawyer might argue that the police should've notified the appropriate city agencies that the space was being used for performances that were open to the public and a jury just might buy it.

doubt it. incredibly difficult to sue the police over failure to enforce

Who else is looking forward to the Love Is All gigs? Right? Right?

I hear the opener will be an extended powerpoint presentation about the efficacy of the building code.

The one and only time the Market Hotel was "shut down" was in February. The Showpaper benefit show continued later in the evening.

The citations that resulted from the February bust have resulted in a grand total of ZERO convictions. Six of the citations were dismissed in May, and the rest are expected to be dismissed in June.

http://www.nyctaper.com/?p=180

I hope they get their 'collective asses' back here to Chicago; they blew out a packed to the rafters hoard at the Empty Bottle, post SXSW.