Posted in music on March 4, 2009

Wayne Coyne and Win Butler

"I'm a fan of [Arcade Fire] on one level, but on another level I get really tired of their pompousness," says [Wayne] Coyne [of the Flaming Lips]. "We've played some shows with them and they really treat people like shit. Whenever I've been around them, I've found that they not only treated their crew like shit, they treated the audience like shit. They treated everybody in their vicinity like shit. I thought, 'Who do they think they are?' I don't know why people put up with it. I wouldn't put up with it. I don't care if it's Arcade Fire or Brian Eno. If either of them walked into a room and treated people like shit I'd be like, 'Fuck you, get outta here.'

He continues, "People treat Arcade Fire like they're the greatest thing ever and they get away with it. Those sort of opinions change my view of their music. They have good tunes, but they're pricks, so fuck 'em. Who does Arcade Fire think they are? I've been around groups. I've been around the Edge from U2 and he's the fucking sweetest guy ever. I was around Justin Timberlake when he was young and he was just a normal, nice, kind person. Anyone can be polite and kind and people who have the privilege and money and attention should understand that. If they don't, then fuck 'em." [Rolling Stone]

Rolling Stone posted that Wayne Coyne quote earlier today, and now Win Butler has responded on ArcadeFire.com (click on "Win" and then "Win's Scrapbook").

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Comments (167)

Whoo-hoo this is exciting! Too bad Win center-aligned his response, I think that really undercuts his argument and probably will lose him some support.

Posted by Orpheus | March 4, 2009 10:01 PM

Damn Wayne! I guess this means AF won't be opening for the Lips at ATP then?

Posted by maitai | March 4, 2009 10:03 PM

totally agree with the center-aligning. also, who really cares or believes what other people say? Wayne is kinda strange, and maybe Arcade Fire are a bunch of assholes. They both make amazing music. Isn't Daniel Day Lewis the meanest actor alive? I pay to see him act, not be nice.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:04 PM

damn 10:03 i was gonna make that joke

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:06 PM

I've been to like 12 Arcade Fire shows and felt nothing but love every time, so I don't know what the whole treating their audience like shit thing is about. Sounds like somebody has a case of a jealousies.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:13 PM

I seriously think Wayne Coyne is hallucinating

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:24 PM

yeah, maybe wayne was having like a really bad trip when he met Win in Las Vegas...

but it's pretty sad to see two great bands have bad blood between each other.

Posted by imkoreansowhat | March 4, 2009 10:28 PM

Bottom line: Flaming Lips are awesome live. Arcade Fire is not.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:38 PM

Flaming Lips might be good live if they actually played music.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:45 PM

10:13 must be a mom from someone in arcade fire...

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:46 PM

The Flaming Lips are FN amazing live. So is Arcade Fire. Felt nothing but love from both. Oh well.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:48 PM

It's The Fearless Freaks vs The Canadian Jocks. My money is on the badasses from OKC.

Posted by Darnell | March 4, 2009 10:54 PM

both dudes seem pretty douchey

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 10:56 PM

shitty grammar, win butler!

Posted by des! | March 4, 2009 10:59 PM

I've been to two Arcade Fire concerts here in Los Angeles and both times Win has directly insulted the city. It's been over a year since the last time so I can't quite remember exactly what he said but I remember thinking that he was being kind of a dick. Like most bands I see will like make jokes or say something playfully but Win just talked about how much he hates LA. I love both bands but I can definitely see how Arcade Fire could be pompous assholes behind closed doors.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:01 PM

Win doesn't know the difference between 'then' and 'than' so he's obviously a prick.

All kidding aside, both bands are awesome and both bands bring it in their live shows.
I hope Wayne has a comeback. Feuds are fun.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:03 PM

Who are the Flaming Lips?

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:12 PM

I'd like to think that Coyne articulated that part of the interview in the 'clearly joking/predictably esoteric' persona he traditionally carries on camera. His act of getting vulnerable about mortality and wide-eyed about how big the universe is feels staler each subsequent interview.

Is there any precedent for unprovoked, vicious tirades from seemingly level-headed rock frontmen? It honestly doesn't matter how fucking good you think his band is, the bottom line is it was downright inexcusable to go on a endless tangent on how this one band he met that one time are absolutely terrible people. Unless, of course, he ran it firsthand by Warner A&R. (Probably the case: wouldn't Warner suits be trying to snuff this out if it wasn't premeditated?)

Keep in mind: It is impossible for there not to be some undercurrent of artistic jealousy fueling this. Coyne must miss his past relevance. Seems like he found a way for people to talk about him again.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:16 PM

Having heard Win Butler and Regine Chassagne on NPR with Teri Gross, I did notice a certain "air" of pompousness. They did give Terry Gross, one of the better interviewers, rockstar answers like "we don't like it when people take pictures with their cellphones, it takes away from the experience." And while I certainly understand the purity of the thought, who the fuck are they to tell anyone how to experience a concert? Could be because they're Canucks and the French side just came shining through. At the same time the Arcade Fire are such critical darlings, who can blame them for being stuck up? I have to say though, I remember a time when the Flaming Lips had that same air. Anyone remember the "She Don't Use Jelly" era?

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:19 PM

Well, I don't think they treat their fans like shit, but Arcade Fire does indeed seem a bit pompous. I blame the music press though for putting them on this fucking ridiculous pedestal. (They're good, but not that good, people.) The band now acts like they're God's gift to recorded sound. They're almost as overrated as post-OK Computer Radiohead.

But that was kind of douchey of Wayne, too.

So the verdict is: I think they're both decent musicians, but complete & utter tools. Thanks, guys. You are both assholes.

PS- Win would have more credibility if his grammar was better.

Posted by mp | March 4, 2009 11:22 PM

canadians r funny lookin

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:25 PM

win butler is a butthole

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:27 PM

I think Arcade Fire are one of the better live acts these days, but Wayne might have a point here. I've seen AF 5 times:

1. At Irving Plaza - the band had a blast on stage and truly appeared humbled by the crowd's appreciation. David Byrne made a surprise appearance and closed with "Naive Melody." One of the best concert experiences ever.

2. At Summer Stage headlining CMJ - although it was September, it was unbearably hot and humid. Still the performance was fantastic. Unfortunately, Win expressed disappointment in the crowd b/c they weren't dancing enough. Also, Win through somewhat of a tantrum right in front of Bowie off-stage.

3. At RCMH on the Neon Bible tour - once again, the band sounded great, but Win kept urging the crowd to overthrow the RCMH security and dance in the aisles. Meanwhile, the security just wasn't having it. Win again expressed disappointment that the crowd did sufficiently rebel.

4. At Sasquatch - simply an amazing show. However, Win scolded the crowd several times for not dancing enough. It was freezing that night.

At Randall's Island with LCD - also an amazing performance. However, when the crowd booed when Win announced that the show would be the band's last for a while. Win misinterpreted the boos and made some sarcastic comments at the crowd.

I'm not really expressing an opinion here, but all of these things really happened.

Posted by Dan | March 4, 2009 11:27 PM

I really think Wayne Coyne should have thought before he spoke. Arcade Fire have suffered tragedy after tragedy (Why do you think they called their album FUNERAL a-doye???) and I know that Win Butler personally had to overcome a lot of adversity just to even make it in the music scene, so I think Wayne Coyne should just give them a break. I think Wayne Coyne is probably just jealous anyway of a band that has accomplished more in five years than his band has accomplished in ten.

Posted by nocaresgo | March 4, 2009 11:31 PM

Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids.

Posted by nkf | March 4, 2009 11:35 PM

The only time I ever saw them was actually at one of those church shows in the Village. I thought they came off as pompous just by putting on those shows!

And to nocaresgo:

Kid, just because a band suffers "tragedy after tragedy" doesn't mean they deserve to act like pompous assholes. By the way, do you know how many bands out there have suffered unfathomable tragedies?! A lot more than just Arcade Fire. (And you get a big "fuck you" for typing out "a-doye.")

Posted by mp | March 4, 2009 11:53 PM

I think it's great someone referred to the Flaming Lips popular time as the "she don't use jelly era" !

p.s. she uses vaaaaaseline.

Posted by Anonymous | March 4, 2009 11:57 PM

hhaha, Win does not articulate his position very well. Coyne wins by virtue of using more expletives!

Posted by still an ass | March 5, 2009 12:02 AM

What unfathomable tragedies? A relative dying is deepy sad, but it's not unfathomable and impossible to get over. And Win Butler comes from a wealthy Houston suburb, went to Phillips Exeter boarding school, his family reportedly summers in Maine, and he went to artsy private liberal arts college. And he became famous and worshipped at a really young age. I'm not surprised that he may come across as stuck up and nasty in real life.

Posted by Charles | March 5, 2009 12:05 AM

Well I don't know what is a tragedy to you but I know for a fact that at least one person the band knew died and they went to at least one funeral. That is very difficult to deal with and I am surprised they even finished the record. Also, you are dead wrong about Win's financial back ground, he comes from a very poor family and anyway so what if he was from a rich family, he still had a lot of hardship in his life, and so did Regine, she and her family had to escape from Cuba (I think) where they don't even have Tylenol or any luxury goods and find a new life in Canada, which is hard to do, so I think they deserve all the success they have and Wayne Coyne is just jealous.

Posted by nocaresgo | March 5, 2009 12:13 AM

nocaresgo:

I just don't know why you keep bringing up the bands' personal tragedies. What does it have to do with all this? Lots of bands have suffered losses. Lots of band members lost some of its members & pressed on to make great albums. The Rolling Stones come to mind. Ra Ra Riot comes to mind. Lynyrd Skynyrd & Metallica come to mind. (Okay, "great albums" is arguable.) I don't even know why I'm bring all this up. The fact of the matter is, these things shouldn't come into play with the way a band treats its fans, or crews, etc... which is what this whole post was about.

(By the way, are you then saying that Win IS in fact a pompous ass?)

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:22 AM

She don't use Tylenol! ha ha ha

Looks like their fans are as douchey as they are. I'll express an opinion, Arcade Fire are terrible and it's all downhill from here kiddies.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:26 AM

an article in Rolling Stone, 5/31/07 It ends with the reporter, Gavin Edwards, interviewing Win Butler in a car in London. At one point, Butler gets a call from his manager on his cell phone. He asks his driver to pull over and tells Edwards he needs to take the call. "It takes a moment to realize what he means: He wants me to get out of the car and take a bus," Edwards wrote. The writer is left standing at the side of the road, with Butler's car pulling away into the London streets.

reading this article, I came away thinking, Win sure seems like a tool.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:27 AM

Wayne Coyne talks allot if shit himself. he should just shut it and get on w/ it...

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:30 AM

I am mentioning their many tragedies and hurdles because those kind of things can really wear on a person and put them in a bad mood, so maybe when wayne Coyne met them they were in a bad mood because they had just had a band meeting and somebody had brought up the funeral. I don't know if you have ever been in a band but band meetings can be very intense, particularly if somebody has just been to a funeral. So maybe they got off the plane or whatever, and Win was like, "I think we need a band meeting before this show," and then somebody was like, "If only I could stop thinking about this funeral," and then it just went downhill from there and Wayne Coyne happened to walk into the room with his "fun guy" persona but Arcade Fire was too busy grieving and they rebuffed him. So you can't really blame Arcade Fire in this situation. It's tough to go through a tragedy!!!

Posted by nocaresgo | March 5, 2009 12:31 AM

Win stole my basketball.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:31 AM

I miss the early 90's when the Flaming Lips hit. Back when MTV played music video's, there was still alternative music, and people dyed their hair with koolaid.
We all looked like shit and didn't know better.

Yeah yeah, I know... I'll shut up.

(but I miss how music production sounded then too! Ok, I'm leaving!)

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:35 AM

I saw Flaming Lips play Coachella in 2004. Wayne Coyne took the opportunity as his own personal soapbox and went into a 20-minute diatribe against Bush (who, admittedly, is a douche). They played all of three songs, one of which was leading the audience into a rendition of 'Happy Birthday' for Beck's unborn baby. They played a half-assed show and, in my opinion, did not respect the audience. What a hypocrite.

In contrast, I've seen Arcade Fire play twice, with great enthusiasm and musicianship, and always with an encore.

I would never pay money to see Flaming Lips.

Posted by anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:38 AM

nocaresgo, are you their publicist? you're certainly giving ole Win the reacharound on this one.

when i saw flaming lips at MSG on NYE, they upstaged wilco and brought the fun like 10x. i would see them in a heartbeat. i would never see arcade fire.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:45 AM

mom, stop posting as "nocaresgo!"

Posted by Win | March 5, 2009 12:51 AM

i met Win and a couple other guys in the band before a show a few years ago. They were talkative and friendly and generally awesome to their fans. So... ok.

Posted by Hexatron | March 5, 2009 12:56 AM

every thread on Brooklyn Vegan is an argument between two people. Reminds me of the grizzly bear threads. y'alls need to chill and smoke some weed

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:58 AM

nocaresgo is snark, you goddamn idiots.

And that is not how I remember RCMH '07: Win encouraged the crowd to get out of their seats and come up front and dance (completely reasonable). He actually got reprimanded and threatened backstage by the head of security and forced to apologize. Again, presumably, if he was a pompous asshole (Alex Turner comes to mind far more quickly than say, Win) wouldn't he just not give a shit, play the songs and bail? (full disclosure: perhaps I'm not 'unbiased' because I'm sitting next to a stack of AF vinyl)

Remember: the important thing, of course is that WIN DIDN'T STEAL DUDE'S BASKETBALL http://acephalous.typepad.com/dude-arcade-fire-did-not-steal-your_04.html

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:59 AM

Well anonymous above I am not snark, actually when I started posting in this chat room I got my AF vinyl too and set it next to me to inspire me and keep the fire burning. And that is something that I think Wayne Coyne needs to remember, that AF is keeping the fire burning, the funeral fire is burning, or rather the pyre, inside them and that's what keeps them going. Wayne Coyne can shake his ass into the next decade for all I care but long live the funeral pyre of Arcade Fire!

Posted by nocaresgo | March 5, 2009 1:03 AM

I've tried and tried, but I do not get what all the commotion is over Arcade Fire. They are pretentious and incredibly overrated, and the claim that they are pompous a-holes doesn't shock me. Eff 'em.

Posted by Dave C. | March 5, 2009 1:23 AM

This is why indie rock sux. People blogging and twittering. Take it to the streets, not the internet.

Posted by Sean | March 5, 2009 1:34 AM

It's like Biggie Vs. Tupac, except with geeky white dudes!!

Posted by mark | March 5, 2009 1:35 AM

I thought Win would know the difference between "then" and "than".

Posted by Thrashingtiger | March 5, 2009 4:44 AM

was win a real fan of the flaming lips prior to the diss?

you'd think that he'd know how to spell the drummer's name: it's drozd not drodz.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 5:25 AM

>> writer is left standing at the side of the road, with Butler's car pulling away into the London streets.

reading this article, I came away thinking, Win sure seems like a tool.

Yeah but it WAS a British music journalist , so I don't feel that bad :)

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 7:30 AM

THEY BOTH SUCK SWEATY HORSE COCK.

THE END.

Posted by lady gaga | March 5, 2009 7:37 AM

Win regularly makes snarky comments and scolds the audience when he feels they're not being energetic enough. He definitely comes across as a dick when he does that. Otherwise, in real life, he's extremely nice.

Wayne's great but his niceness always seems a little forced and overdone. In interviews he lashes out at people with anger.

FLips used to be a great live band, they're not anymore. AF are still a great live band.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 7:45 AM

HEY SHITHEADS THIS MUSIC IS FOR KIDS

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 8:19 AM

Based on albums, I'm taking Soft Bulletin/Yoshimi over Funeral/Neon

nocaresgo has been the funniest so far.

Posted by hitmymama | March 5, 2009 8:29 AM

Why does every AF song sound like an "anthem"? Why does every instrument have to be played on every song? Why do they sound, remarkably, like Dexey's Midnight Runners?

No one in AF is even remotely likable; their attitude and posturing smacks of white privilege; their "beliefs" about music and the transformative live experience is immature, undeveloped, and indicates a lack of awareness with regard to music history. Why Win even choose to engage the issues leads me to believe that Wayne struck a chord of truth of some sort . . .

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 8:36 AM

If you're asking these bullshit questions, then you just don't like the band, that's your answer. It's like asking "Why is Arcade Fire so Arcade Firey?"

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 8:47 AM

8:36,

You nailed it right on the head. That's my whole problem with the band. I just don't buy their supposed "earnestness."

Also, another annoying Win Butler point. In that same RS piece discussed he made somewhat of a fuss about RS giving Arcade Fire the same number of stars as Fall Out Boy. Regardless of your feelings of FOB (I have a feeling most people on here don't enjoy them) you come off like a cranky teenage girl who just lost a beauty target whenever you take shots at easy targets (i.e. Fall Out B0y) which just goes to show that their attitude is immature.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 8:51 AM

wayne coyne is a hater. he talks shit on everyone.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 8:55 AM

i think wayne and win should just overcome their differences and have make-up sex already

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:15 AM

i think everyone can agree that we want to hear more from 'nocaresgo'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWSjUe0FyxQ

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:17 AM

Win & Regine are two of the nicest musicians I've ever met. Seriously sweet people.

Posted by Bob F | March 5, 2009 9:19 AM

The Arcade Lips

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:33 AM

know who's really nice? Sade.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:38 AM

Arcade Fire = The Waterboys

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:38 AM

I wish Wayne gave a concrete example of what exactly happened. Notice he didnt say Win was treating him like shit, its that they treated their crew and people in the vacinity like that(I will assume security, reporters etc like shit- which would fit in well with that story about reporter getting asked to get out of the limo).

Win's response is pretty lame. Hopefully by someone famous calling him out in public will get him to reflect, although maybe he missed Wayne's point completely.

Finally, I was at the RCMH show as well in the 2nd row and it was disappointing that people didnt rush the stage but blame the nazi security for that, with their strong arm tactics. Although if that was Iggy Pop and the Stooges, the outcome might have been different...

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:40 AM

apps are the new music.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:47 AM

i bet arcade fire would have no problem watching one of their friends/bandmates become a total junkie just so they could continue to be a famous rock star. that's just the kind of pretentious thing those kids would do.

want to hear a good album? listen to "hit to death in the future head," which was made by the flaming lips before their genius guitarist quit and they turned into cartoons.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:50 AM

lips all day

blame canada

Posted by fuckwebsterhall | March 5, 2009 9:58 AM

Anonymous 9:17am for the win.

(no pun intended).


Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:00 AM

the flaming fire

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:06 AM

can someone please make a reenactment of this "wayne meets the Arcade fire incidenent" and post it on youtube? just thinking about it makes me laugh...

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:11 AM

Anon 8:51, this reminds me of the Seinfeld where Elaines boyfriend calls her breathtaking and then calls the ugly baby breathtaking and it infuriates her.

Arcade Fire and the Flaming Lips are both breathtaking.

(cue Seinfeld intro music)

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:11 AM

one time i saw flaming lips but i was so tripped out that i don't remember anything about it.

Posted by Sacred Absolute Hipster Cow | March 5, 2009 10:16 AM

My response to Wayne woulda been:

We might be assholes to our audience, but at least we keep them on our toes. As for you...keep playing that same exact live show every time. Seriously...the identical setlists, get into the ball on the crowd... but especially the the nun hand puppet thing into the wide lens camera...it's fucking hilarious and never, ever gets old.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:16 AM

ahh who cares
saw the lips a few times in the late 90's..good live show

only saw arcade fire once with lcd...thought lcd stole the show

win kinda looks like a tool, but thats just me judging a book by its tool-ish cover..i don't mind their music though..

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:18 AM

Sting is nice.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:28 AM

Btw, the Funeral album was named after the funerals of some of the band members' families, by which I mean grandparents & aunts. No one-time members of the band passed away. (Got that, nocaresgo?... by which I mean the "real," original nocaresgo.) So in other words, not to sound like a dick, but Arcade Fire suffered losses that every member of every band in the entire world has suffered. And they named an album after it.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:30 AM

The Soft Bulletin is an amazing album, but I've always felt that The Lips lost something when they turned into a circus act. I saw them in 96 or 97 when they used to be a rock band and it was a mind blowing experience. I wish they could do that again, at least every once in a while.

Having said that, when I was a really young I snuck backstage with some friends to try and meet The Lips when they were opening for some terrible bad we weren't there to see anyway and Wayne Coyne was the nicest rock star I've ever met still to this date. At the time he couldn't remember what their upcoming tour schedule was, so he searched for his girlfriend for 5 minutes to get their new address from her, which he couldn't remember either, and asked us to please write him so he could let us know when they'd be back in town (yeah, I'm old. this is pre-internet). We walked away thinking, "wow, why was he so nice to us? That was kind of weird." Maybe he's got a skewed vision of a band's responsibility to its fans. I don't know.

He probably shouldn't be calling people out in the media like that, but it's also nice to see some shit get stirred from time to time. It almost reminds me of when rock really mattered.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:32 AM

win is a total asshole. i am not bringing up names, but arcade fire has paid some of their opening acts hardly anything and went so far as to ask some acts to pay their sound guy. these were gigs where arcade fire was getting paid shitloads of money. to me the worst assholes are the sanctimonious ones who play the nice guy while they are huge dicks. i am happy that wayne called them out. sorry af fans, but wayne was right on.

Posted by brando | March 5, 2009 10:36 AM

this is the new ryan adams vs. jack white feud. love it!

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:46 AM

Wait, did Win or Wayne Win?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:55 AM

who's the nicest acts that you have met? I think Vivian Girls, Ponytail, Dan Deacon (although dan gets stressed out sometimes), I also met Talk Normal, Thurston Moore, Andrew WK and they were super nice. Actually I cant think of any band I met that wasnt nice.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:56 AM

"and went so far as to ask some acts to pay their sound guy."

In no way do I condone or like Arcade Fire but why shouldn't the sound guy get paid for his work? Just because the Fire are a bunch of stingy dicks to their opening acts doesn't mean that any sound man should work for free.

Oh and someone at BV has a hard on for Shilpa Ray

Posted by Brando Lee | March 5, 2009 10:57 AM

you know what i havent seen in a while?


Big league chew

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:59 AM

of course the sound guy should get paid.

either by the promoter or the headlining act.

douches.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:05 AM

I think the sound guy should pay Arcade Fire for the right to hear their music. They are sad.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:07 AM

"of course the sound guy should get paid.

either by the promoter or the headlining act."


Thats not the way it works in the big leagues, buddy.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:11 AM


Battle Royale(w/cheese) :

wayne coyne, jay reatard, ryan adams(no cardinals), brittney spears, kevin garnett & teri gross

vs.

win butler, beck, jack white, tom waits, iggy pop & the wu-tang clan !


Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:16 AM

Big League chew had commercials and shit when I was a kid.
With real ass baseball players and kids... and the kids pretended to be in the "big league" by eating gummy chewing tobacco.
I thought big league chew was for boys only then. My brother would shove have a sleeve of that stuff into his cheek as I looked on in disgust smoking a gummy cigarette.

Thank god that stuff didn't actually influence us.
(as I light up a cigarette and crave sugar).

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:20 AM

Not sticking up for Arcade Fire, because I do find them a bit pretentious (then again, aren't rockers supposed to be pretentious?), but it's pretty standard for the opener on big tours to make peanuts even if the headliner is making an obscene amount of money. I've known acts that got $200 a night while their headliner was pulling down six figures. They were glad to get the exposure and they made a killing on merch every night. It's just the way it works. It's the game, not the player.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:21 AM

This is the same guy who smashed his guitar during a perfomance on Saturday Night Live. I'm not the least bit surprised.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:27 AM

Arcade Fire would be nothing with Pitchfork. It's today's comfy little middle-class-daddy-paid-for-college-blogger-music. No balls, no guts. Just Springsteen rip-offs and hidden behind period piece decorations. Fuck them.

Posted by KJ | March 5, 2009 11:28 AM

Speaking of Pitchfork, anyone see how pitchfork has gladly taken sides on this.

"Well, Arcade Fire frontman Win Butler isn't taking it lying down. This evening, he posted a response on the Arcade Fire's website expressing his confusion, anger, and disappointment with Wayne, someone he considered to be a bit of a hero. It's a straightforward, sincere piece of writing, and Win definitely comes out looking like the better man."

The music world will be much better served if the recession puts these hacks out of business.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:34 AM

I haven't read Pitchfork in 3 years

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:37 AM

Even if Arcade Fire are pricks, they make great music - yes derivative of Springsteen but still original.

As far as Wayne Coyne - what makes him feel the need to air his personal views on who is a prick and who is cool in Rolling Stone? - makes him sound like a prick too.

Posted by anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:41 AM

i just farted

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:43 AM

I enjoy how Pitchfork doesn't allow comments on their "news" pieces, as if they are serious and legitimate journalists. If you want a real laugh, go and read their review of the Voxtrot album. After pumping those guys up forever they couldn't bring themselves to bash their album even though they obviously didn't think it was very good. It reads like one of the Voxtrot dude's mom wrote it.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:46 AM

It's a straightforward, sincere piece of writing, and Win definitely comes out looking like the better man."


bad grammar now = straightword and sincere? give me a fucking break. and pitchfork chose to ignore wayne's main point, how Arcade Fire treat their underlings. Wayne is right I dont care if you work in Dunkin Donuts or what if your boss starts talking shit to you he deserves to get called out on it.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:56 AM

"Thats not the way it works in the big leagues, buddy."

so in the big leagues the opening band pays the headlining bands sound guy?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:57 AM

I did write it.

-Mama Vox

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 11:58 AM

"so in the big leagues the opening band pays the headlining bands sound guy?"

Yes, if said soundman worked for the opening band too. Why is this concept so hard to understand?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:12 PM

Maybe he meant Arctic Monkeys not Arcade Fire? Sounds pretty similar

Posted by citibank | March 5, 2009 12:12 PM

"Arcade Fire have suffered tragedy after tragedy (Why do you think they called their album FUNERAL a-doye???) "

Yes but to go beyond using these tragedies as creative inspiration and cross into the world of using these tragedies as promotion and marketing tools is what I find so repellent. That's what the thrust of Funeral's promotion and buzz was anchored in.

"and I know that Win Butler personally had to overcome a lot of adversity just to even make it in the music scene"

Haha, yes, I can tell the photo has been photoshopped because of some of the pixels and the fact that I have seen a great many shops in my day.

Posted by Stan | March 5, 2009 12:18 PM

@ 11:58 you just made my day.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:19 PM

"Yes, if said soundman worked for the opening band too. Why is this concept so hard to understand?"

just seems a bit unfair that they have to pay the guy's full day rate and whatever OT for the 2 hours of the day he probably spends on their sound check and performance. if thats the case though its a sweet deal for the headliners.
do they pay the LD, board op, monitor mixer, stage manager, stagehands, gaffer, spot ops, and runners too?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:26 PM

In the big leagues sound guys do get paid, sometimes twice.By the sound company, if that's who they work for, and extra by the band they mix. Bring your own sound guy, it's a wise investment. Thin Lizzy rules.

Posted by nkf | March 5, 2009 12:34 PM

in the big leagues we say, nobody pays the sound guy.

that's the way it works in the big leagues, buddy.

I'm hungry.

Posted by Manny Ramirez | March 5, 2009 12:40 PM

I've met Wayne a couple times and have to say he's a genuinely nice guy. I can't imagine why he would say these things if they didn't have some merit.

However, one thing I find odd is how Wayne has never bashed Coldplay for stealing their live show years ago - ie. dropping balloons filled with glitter, tons of confetti, Chris Martin twirling that light-rope thing.

I would expect that kind of blatant rip-off to drive anyone crazy, yet I've never heard or read Wayne say one thing about it. Why is this?

Also, I just saw Chris Martin on TV last week wearing a Flaming Lips shirt. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:41 PM

Clubs DO traditionally have soundmen you can have do your sound if you touring with your own sound guy or don't want to pay the headliner's s.guy's rate.

If Arcade Fire were like, "Hey we don't need your regular sound guy cuz we brought our own" leaving the opener no option BUT to pay for their sound guy then that is a dick move.

But this is all speculation. Who the fuck knows? Who is the Bob Woodward of the indie-rock world? We've got a case to investigate.

Posted by stan | March 5, 2009 12:43 PM

I met Win and he wasn't in the big leagues.

I met Wayne and he asked me to pay the sound guy. I said fuck you, buddy. that's not how we roll in the big leagues (or as I like to call it "the show")

Posted by Coldplay | March 5, 2009 12:45 PM

I think the standard rate, at least on arena tours , is $50 for mixing an opening band,either FOH or monitors. Sometimes the lighting guy/girl get paid too. The work is usually done by one of the system techs who work for the PA rental company. If the headliners sound man wants to do it I guess he could and charge whatever he can get. The idea I guess is that the techs get paid to set up and troubleshoot the PA. If they mix it's outside their job description. It's actually not a bad deal for an opening band as these people usually are quite competent and lots of sound guys want more than the $100 you end up spending for two engineers.

Posted by nkf | March 5, 2009 12:49 PM

I think Wayne Coyne has just been in the music business for nearly 3 decades and doesn't give a shit anymore how people take what he says. Living in OKC, he must have a boatload of cash saved up. What does he care if pisses a few people off?

Still, I wish the Lips would rock more like the used to.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:51 PM

i met win and got his autograph before he hit the big leagues. i just hope he doesnt take steroids.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:55 PM

111 comments on a story that is none of any one's business... I wish performers I love didn't stoop to use media outlets as they personal rant boxes.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 12:58 PM

I think the standard, and I mean the big league, Win-level standard, is to have no sound guy at all. if you need a sound guy, you're not in the big leagues.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:03 PM

arcade fire are ho hum flavor of the month popsters. I'm glad someone legit is calling them on their shit!

being big in canada don't mean shit, assholes!

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:04 PM

I think it’s fair to call Win big league. I also think it’s far to call Wayne “Win.”

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:09 PM

Guys is Jesus Jones big league?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:19 PM

Wayne is the most down to earth person you'll ever meet. For him to call out a band like that is saying something. He wouldn't just do that because of jealousy, animosity, or whatever reason. I think there needs to be a brawl between the two bands. The Fearless Freaks will beat the shit out those maple-leaf pussies. Michael Ivins is one crazy bastard...

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:22 PM

BIv is big league, Bell isn't. Devoe is just mean.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:29 PM

So who do prefer the psych neil young covers band with three songs or the pompus Springsteen covers band? Win is an agresive tool and talks shit to his staff... I haveno respect for that. Ebrytime I've seen them he's called out soundguys or whatever. In front of the crowd which is really disrespectful and unprofessional. Plus they tour with a pipe organ for one song....that's pretty pompus. It's doubtful anyone in twenty years is going to care about either band.

Big bands often offer sound guy for a fee... No reason they should have to pay for their soundman to work for someone else. For big shows like theirs yr paying for someone who knows their soundboard and rig.

That is all

Posted by Ro | March 5, 2009 1:31 PM

Wayne may be a nice guy but I can't see how he is down to earth is he makes a psycadelic move about Mars! He is from outterspace thus not down to Earth.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:32 PM

"who's the nicest acts that you have met?"

i think this is a more interesting topic than some pissing contest between two rock stars.

i worked at a club for years so i crossed paths with more bands than i care to remember. some people who stick out in my memory as being really cool/nice are:

superdrag
jenny lewis
andrew wk
yo la tengo
john reis
murder by death
brendan canty & bob mould
flogging molly
matt skiba & derek grant (alkaline trio)
hot water music
gorilla biscuits
the bronx
constantines
the sam roberts band

etc...


Posted by shit head | March 5, 2009 1:34 PM

John Wayne was a draft dodger

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:38 PM

Maybe Wayne is nice to his fans because he spent years touring & putting out records on a fairly small level & had a lot of time to meet his fans & appreciate their support. Maybe Win is a dick to his fans because his band blew up overnight thanks to a glowing Pitchfork review.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:41 PM

Daft Punk signs on to score Tron 2.0!

Posted by Blackraptor. | March 5, 2009 1:43 PM

flogging molly isn't very nice.

Posted by molly | March 5, 2009 1:44 PM

who cares about Arcade Fire?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:47 PM

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:41 PM
"Maybe Wayne is nice to his fans because he spent years touring & putting out records on a fairly small level & had a lot of time to meet his fans & appreciate their support. Maybe Win is a dick to his fans because his band blew up overnight thanks to a glowing Pitchfork review."

BINGO!!!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE A WINNER!

Might as well close the book on this now.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:52 PM

if the sound guy wasn't down to earth he'd get electrocuted

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 1:59 PM

BV > Pitchfork

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 2:05 PM

wayne does have the nicer smile of the two. settles it for me.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 2:10 PM

win butler was born and raised in texas.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 2:26 PM

Let's keep talking about this, everyone. Let's do it. I know we can. We have it in us. Win. Wayne. Wax and Wane. Horse and Wain.

Posted by Orpheus | March 5, 2009 3:02 PM

Andrew WK is one of the nicest people I ever met, period. In whatever situation or social setting. I think that guy would give you his shirt off his back, or share the last bit of water if you were in the middle of the desert.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 3:20 PM

Why dont you just turn up everything to 10? then you wont need any sound guy.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 3:22 PM

i heard wayne boinked win's mom's mouth

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 3:42 PM

Wayne Coyne worked at a freaking Long John Silver's for 10 years while his band was slugging it out in the trenches through the 80's. He can speak his mind all he wants. He's earned it.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 3:53 PM

Why are people still talking about this?

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 4:05 PM

WHEN IT'S TIME TO PARTY, WE WILL PARTY HARD!

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 4:09 PM

Andrew WK stands for "Win Kares"

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 4:50 PM

i met a guy named larry one time. he was nice because he didnt punch me in the crotch. seemed like a standup guy to me.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 4:54 PM

i think lee roth would kill hagar in a fight. hagar is a fat fuck.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 6:05 PM

When it's so obvious what Win is just misspelling "than", it's pretty ironic that commenters are hung up on his "bad grammar", when to call it that would clearly be poor vocabulary, if you really care that much. It's bad spelling. Grammar has to do with syntax and structure, unless you're unable to realize he's just misspelling.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 6:12 PM

arcade fire is for little rubber people who dont shave yet. so bring out the girls and lets have a mud fight

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 6:28 PM

both these bands fucking suck

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 6:45 PM

Neon Bible is a total rip off of my greatest recording! I do love both win and wayne.

Posted by eddie and the cruisers | March 5, 2009 7:47 PM

Hey, if AF are dicks then they are dicks. I'm from Oklahoma and yes people can have weird judgemental attitudes. But this is not one of those instances. Wayne is simply being honest. fuck em

Posted by Peadinkill | March 5, 2009 9:01 PM

speaking of douchebags, dicks, crotchrot and pricks. anybody else surprised that vegan has allowed bloomberg ads to taint these pages? "bold solutions for nyc". yeah right. no more term limits for rich bastards. "get involved". sure, take the vote away from the people in favor of legislative dominance.

Posted by billionairesRus | March 5, 2009 9:27 PM

"anybody else surprised that vegan has allowed bloomberg ads to taint these pages? "

those ads are semi-randomly generated by Google based on keywords on the page.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 9:37 PM

well, then block those ads that are "randomly generated by Google based on keywords"; Bloomberg needs to be stopped from changing the law. He has had his run, but now he is proving himself to be bad for democracy. He is a Free Market nut-job and we all know where that has led us . . . anyone see the postings for Rehab, Sound Fix and Knitting Factory all closing shop? It ain't just a coincidence.


Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:08 PM

Site owners actually have a lot of control over Google advertising.

Posted by Anonymous | March 5, 2009 10:35 PM

Wayne Coyne actually has a lot of control over Google advertising

FIXED!

Posted by Sacred Absolute Hipster Cow | March 6, 2009 11:13 AM

I think Wayne is the only one "keeping it real" when he does talk smack. In REAL life, people voice an opinion, they don't worry about how famous they are and whether they should. Wayne has the right to say someone is an asshole and he doesn't need to worry or justify it. That's his friggin opinion.

Posted by Anonymous | March 6, 2009 11:31 AM

why have we let this die?? this is the greatest post on bkvegan in the past 3 months! i need more "___________ sucks!" posts please.

Posted by Anonymous | March 6, 2009 2:14 PM

The aforementioned article with the reporter getting thrown out of Win Butler's car can be found here:

http://rulefortytwo.com/articles-essays/music/the-arcade-fire/

Posted by Anonymous | March 6, 2009 2:28 PM

dude, if win doesn't know the difference between then and than, than he's an idiot!

Posted by Anonymous | March 6, 2009 2:28 PM

Regine's from Haiti, not Cuba.
kind of undercuts nocaresgo's argument if he doesn't know the facts...

Posted by Anonymous | March 6, 2009 6:58 PM

Ah ha! Fuck 'em both!
Haters!

Posted by jakerock | March 6, 2009 7:21 PM

Can anyone think of another BV thread this long?
Just curious...

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2009 1:46 AM


There's got to be some connection with a large part of the world reporting how great you are constantly, being so young and famous (and now likely very well-off), the culture of celebrity music, and losing your head among the stars while looking down to your fans.

Speaking of the use of then and than, shouldn't they lyric in Rebellion (Lies) be "die faster when without water" rather than "die faster than without water"? Am I hearing this incorrectly?

Posted by Ryan | March 9, 2009 1:18 PM

wayne is famous for being the nicest guy and treating his crew and audience really really well. So, think I'm going to have to side with wayne on this one.
I don't dislike arcade fire, I can get into them, but could see win's pompous attitude at the show I saw.
http://www.blogotheque.net/Arcade-Fire,2868
This is a cool video of arcade fire, but look how win is such a dick to the guy in the elevator around 3 minutes. I bet he is like that all the time and wayne is calling him out on it.

Posted by ann | May 3, 2009 12:02 AM

I agree w/ sean and lost interest in all other bickering
..
.."This is why indie rock sux. People blogging and twittering. Take it to the streets, not the internet."

WORD.

Posted by Anonymous | July 22, 2010 4:25 AM

I'd like Arcade Fire a lot more, if they weren't so openly political.

Posted by Tanner | August 23, 2010 9:27 PM

You have to remember that Wayne (and the rest of the band) makes a point to go out of his way for his fans and road crew. Wayne will stay up until 3am talking to a hoard of fans after a show, even if he has another show the next day, and he may not really understand that not every musician is like that. He's just an exceptionally kind man, and he sometimes gets frustrated when the rest of the world isn't as nice as he is.

Also, Wayne has no "inner monologue". He tends to say whatever enters his mind without censoring himself. I'm sure that the words "Arcade Fire" came up, he just blurted out what he thought. I don't think he set out to hurt anyone's feelings, it's just the way he felt at that moment. Give Wayne a break, he's a sweetheart, and the Lips are amazing musicians.

Posted by Cat | September 23, 2010 11:00 AM

Did Win really discharge the reporter from his car? That is crappy and he should apologize publicly.

Posted by MJ | March 8, 2011 8:59 PM

Team Arcade Fire.

Posted by mariel | June 28, 2011 11:09 PM

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