"Relix uncovers indie rock's true jamband roots"

i was waiting for this

"Bonnaroo 2009 headliner Bruce Springsteen joined Bonnaroo 2009 headliner Phish on stage at Bonnaroo 2009 last weekend. Video of that below..."

2009 2009 2009

It's the number of the beast

Sonic Youth are, famously, Grateful Dead fans. Did you really not know that?

They forgot some connections:

Smashing Pumpkins "Gish"... rhymes with Phish!

and:

Jack White's new band is called.... THE DEAD Weather!

phish is incredible

"Sonic Youth are, famously, Grateful Dead fans. Did you really not know that?"

I didn't, and I didn't mean to imply that there was no way they could be (though I doubt they ever toured with them). That said, I just googled and found this:
http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/cc/092087.html

S: Do you think comparisons between yourself and the Grateful Dead are fair,at
all?
(. . . much disagreement . . . )

LEE: Being the only one who knows anything about both bands, I think it's fairly apt.

S: I would have to agree with that.

LEE: I'm not saying that's good.

THURSTON: I don't get it, myself. I've heard that.

S: So you all dislike the Grateful Dead.

LEE: No, not at all. I like them again, recently. I hadn't liked them for a long time.

KIM: I like some of it, but a lot of it I don't like. I don't like the long, jazzy jams.

THURSTON: I like their really bad records, like Shakedown Street.

LEE: He's really into the shitty Dead.

all dead = shitty dead.

animal collective were big dead fans growing up which was part of their motivation to play bonnaroo. they dug the live improvisation, obviously.

4:06 better check yo self

Animal Collective are a jam band, so yeah.

Jam band shows can get no more monotonous musically, or loathsome in terms of the stereotypes associated with the fan base than those in indie rock. I love indie rock and 80% of the shows I see or the music I buy is from this genre. Outside of the bad hippie dancing, jam band crowds are usually a lot more attitude-free and more good-time-for-all inviting than indie rock shows. You're more likely to see people having too much fun to text at a jam band show too.

Many of my friends from childhood went on to become professional touring musicians and I will tell you that any of them that are into any kind of "indie" or anything off the radar that would be considered "experimental" liked Phish at some point or still does.

You may not like their songs, you may think that they're childish and poorly written, and long jams may bore you, but the fact of the matter is that the concert experience with these guys is as organic as you can get for a big concert.

Hell, their lights are incredible and their light man is considered a fifth member of the band (CK5) and has to feel their improvisational tendencies and complement it the effects of an endlessly complex light rig.

They go out there and they play incredibly complex songs and make mistakes here and there, but you're getting an honest-to-god real rock and roll experience, not some polished stage act with the same setlist every night. (If that's your thing, then I respect that).

Also, before Phish, who was combining a cappella vocal tunes that meshed into frantic rock or noise jams? Who was making nursery rhyme style songs that blended into prog rock? Who even does this today (for the latter)?

What they do is beautiful, and they are THAT good. Every time I see them it ruins every other similar concert experience for me in the time vicinity. I saw Phoenix last night at T5, and while I enjoyed the show, the polish of the production and lack of any real chances and also the horrendous crowd (despite some downsides, when you go to a Phish show you get a community "we're all in this together to have a good time" vibe) really turned me off. Don't get me wrong - I still enjoyed myself last night, but it's just rarely as good as what those four guys do every time they step onto a stage.

Ohhh....so *that's* why so much of that music sucks.

Now I understand.

i think the shittiest bands in the so called 'indie rock' genre in 2009 have jam band tendencies...they also are pretty much the reason why i hate these types of bands.

i grew up listening to pavement and guided by voices and sebadoh in 92, 93, 94...when those bands were influenced by the 70s and 80s underground...with the occasional nod to the who or neil young. but that era was steeped in punk rock...not shit jam bands.

the latest round of indie wank are usually johnny-come-latelys...getting into this music only in their college days or after. they grew up listening to pink floyd and led zeppelin...not johnny thunders and ramones.

to each his/her own, but the jam aspects of modern music fucking suck. its turned me off to most modern music outside of garage rock and the occasional punk rock band from texas.

Well, as for the jamband influences in the modern scene, it's sort of like a struggle with expectations.

If you can do it well, and do it right (Phish used to practice together upwards of 40 hours a week), then go for it, but there is no excuse for being unprepared for a show that people are paying for and just going up there and noodling for an hour.

For the Phish haters, I respect your opinion, but it's your loss and my gain because, really, going to their concerts is just another opportunity in life to have fun, and if you're not there then there's more room for me to dance. Yes? ;)

Happy hipster hippie haters, just chill and enjoy the VIBES brothers and sisters. Lets just all be phriends! Get it?! I used ph- instead of an f. Whatever you do, never ever ask a phish head about the show, unless you want a 40 minute conversation about the "epic set" they played that was "so unique" and "special".

Animal Collective are not a jam band. Unless the definition of a jam band now encompasses bands that don't jam on stage.

Maybe it's not indie rock's true roots, but maybe an influence for this generation's indie bands.

I love reminiscing about Phish.
They're such a universal guilty pleasure, you don't even feel guilty -you feel proud to like or have liked them.
I got into Phish the same time I got into Yo La Tengo and Daniel Johnston. Around 1993 when I was 13.
They were my first concert at the Beacon Theater.
I'm also proud to say i saw them at Glens Falls Halloween '94 doing the complete White Album for their second set.
Good times.

They did turn a little jazzy after Hoist though.

what is good about the jam band world is you don't have the constant band of the day mentality fostered on websites like this one. It's also what is bad about the jam band world...

Also,
here's the beginning of an essay i wrote about Pavement:
I first heard of the band Pavement the same way I heard about most bands when I was 12, through my older brother Jeff. He told me Pavement was Trey Anistasio's favorite band. This was 1993 or ‘94. I was in 7th or 8th grade. Trey Anistasio's favorite band?” Boy, they sure have a stupid name. I didn't look into the matter that closely.

Of course SY were influenced by GD. The Diamond Sea? Hello? Lee is the obvious one. The fact that Thurston knows that Shakedown Street is a lousy record speaks volumes. As for the other bands mentioned...well Husker Du may not sound like the Grateful Dead but everytime I saw Husker Du play, Grant Hart had long hair, was barefoot and wore love beads. Sleater-Kinney are more in the mode of the Who...I could go on and on.

Every generation of fans want to believe that they are into something totally brand new, but open minded musicians are influenced by other open minded musicians. I know Deadheads who hate to admit that the GD were influenced by country music despite the Deads repeated covers of songs by George Jones, Merle Haggard and Johnny Cash, never mind Jerry's bluegrass past.

Hipsters (20s-30s jazz), Beats, Hippies, Punks, Hipsters (Bedford Ave)...what do they all have in common?

They all like to smoke marijuana.

Are you hip?

Trey is a coke head, they shoulda kept him locked down in upstate NY when he was pulled over with his party supplies. Phish sucks and so do their fans, 'nuf said.

ur a clueless idiot

Whats an indie rock band?
What's a jam band?

Who cares! If people enjoy it why knock it?

as someone who went to bonnaroo this year and didnt see phish at all (or any of the jam bands for that matter)...i have to say that it was awesome having the 'jam band crowd' people at the indie rock shows there. they were all dancing and just having a great time.

when i go to shows i usually get the vibe that for the opening acts/bands people havent heard the crowd has a vibe that they will assume that the band is bad until proven otherwise...however at bonnaroo it was the opposite. everyone assumed the music would be good so they just let go and had a good time. everyone danced and had fun and no one was sitting their analyzing the music. great experience.

All of these Phish lovers kill me. Such a lame band that needs props like simultaneously jumping on trampolines to give their shows some sense of life. Horrible lyrics, even lamer songs. They simply filled the whole left by The Grateful Dead after Jerry died. All of the young drug addicts needed somewhere new to go and did not really seem to care how shitty the band they were following was. It doesn't help that the bass player is a pedophile either, when pleading their case. Go back to being on "hiatus" where we enjoyed Phish NOT being around to tarnish what is good about music. I don't give a shit if they have degrees in music either, it never made me listen to professors more,......so why would it make listen to this scrotum of a band.

American Beauty is one of the greatest albums ever recorded. I would listen to Thurston.

love,
Buddah

9:30, how is phish ruining what is good about music if you DONT HAVE TO GO?

otherwise, i love seeing "hipsters" come out as phish fans... a mainstream cultural phenom didn't have a chance to show their true colors for 5 years...back in the 'burbs, no one second-guesses jamband loyalties. i fucking love it.

also, a lot of phish fans like bluegrass and alt-country...and i see a hell of a lot of my morning jacket fans on phantasytour.com boards.

phish and animal collective both suck. it doesn't matter if one or two or none of them are jam bands. their music is horrible for anyone who doesn't have his head up his ass.

so. guys from MGMT and Vampire Weekend (and Incubus?!?!) saying they like Phish = the jam scene created the indie scene?

Um. right. perfect sense.

"so. guys from MGMT and Vampire Weekend (and Incubus?!?!) saying they like Phish = the jam scene created the indie scene?

Um. right. perfect sense."

Right, the article is poorly written. Relix was never known for good articles.

As for the posters truth and Buddah here - way to hopelessly justify your opinions, guys.

Buddah: you explain some desire for independent thought but then you destroy all credibility by citing Thurston as a reason to believe prove your point. Paradoxical?

truth: you just have an opinion, and while everyone is entitled to an opinion, it doesn't mean that you are not wrong.

You guys should try your hand at phantasytour.com some time, the people on there are debating everything from socialism, MMJ, Phish setlists, and gay marriage and they would eat you alive

PT would absolutely destroy the average bv poster

The ignorance and hate here is in some sense comical, while in other senses alarming at the pure amount of people that have such feelings. Regarding judgement of a massive fan base as just plain sucking, even more comical. Stereotypes are for weak people with low self confidence. I want to thank all of you haters for giving me a reson to smile and be happy with who I am as a person, who my friends and family are as people, and most importantly who I'm not. I'm thankful for live music of all genres, for musicians that create and innovate, for everyone that goes to shows and supports a band, and for the power of the live experience to inspire. Finally, here's to discovering bands the good old fashioned way, open-mindedness and the formation of one's own opinion, which yes is not always positive. So yea, I like Phish, why don't you meet me for lunch sometime and see if you think I suck. I'd be happy to do it in hopes of perhaps changing at least one person's negativity. Or maybe you'll come away thinking I do actually suck, I don't think either of us will regret the decision.

I will say if by "jamming": (1) an artist is being improvisational in a creative and interactive way with his or her bandmates, then that appeals to me more than say (2)"jamming" as defined by "noddling", "meandering" for the sake of turning a three-minute song into a 12-minute one. I think a lot of this comes down to musical taste in terms of what you like in a band as performers.

9:19....Amen!

Edie Brickell invented it all

When I saw Yo La Tengo last year on their acoustic request tour on Long Island, they mentioned how they used to travel to Dead shows and talked about seeing Dead shows at the nassau colisuem. Chairlift was on Fuse last weekend talking about their love of phish as well.

Sonic Youth are famous Dead fans. I saw Yo La Tengo cover the Dead live.

i heard mgmt at forever21 the other day while shopping for some new neon summer fun sunglasses it really put me in the mood to shop till i dropped dead

The funniest part to me is that no bands ever give a shit about anything like the "jam band vs. indie rock debate" while countless fans love to argue. Why is it "a debate" ? Why do people continue to care so much about what other people like?

greg ginn's favorite band was the dead.

so is matisyahu...

Yo La Tengo actually namedrops the dead in their song "drug test"

Pavement, by contrast, expresses disdain toward the jamband scene in "range life"

grateful dead were the best. fugazi is #2. sy and pavement are tied for third. nothing else matters.

Leave it to Relix for revisionist music history. The jam bands(including The Dead)will always be the bane of the music world no matter how Relix wants to paint them. MGMT was kidding for sure.

this sums it up. go back to taking your prozac.

"
as someone who went to bonnaroo this year and didnt see phish at all (or any of the jam bands for that matter)...i have to say that it was awesome having the 'jam band crowd' people at the indie rock shows there. they were all dancing and just having a great time.

when i go to shows i usually get the vibe that for the opening acts/bands people havent heard the crowd has a vibe that they will assume that the band is bad until proven otherwise...however at bonnaroo it was the opposite. everyone assumed the music would be good so they just let go and had a good time. everyone danced and had fun and no one was sitting their analyzing the music. great experience."