Posted in industry | music on November 25, 2009


From: Bob Lefsetz
To: Nathan Hubbard

Is this true? That buyers of DMB and Phish tickets at were redirected to


From: Nathan Hubbard

Sorry, been traveling.

No it's not to my knowledge. Have not had fan complaints about this and we monitor issues in the email and call center hourly. We DID find out that a couple of these broker sites including were using the Live Nation name in their Google ads and displaying the ads when someone searched "Live Nation." This happened in late June. We filed a trademark complaint with Google soon after. But no redirect from the buy button.

We do of course know that many brokers get their tickets using bots that vault them to the front of the line. It sucks for us (we have to build a costly infrastructure that can essentially handle an attack), and more importantly it sucks for the fan (lack of available inventory). We continue to work on technologies that thwart these efforts, and dynamic pricing to address the underlying economic reasons why the secondary market exists.

Thanks for highlighting the great stuff NIN does via Musictoday (part of Live Nation Ticketing). These really are the two options to address the issue; restrict transferability and ask the fan to jump through a few hoops to prove their identity, or price the tickets at what the market is willing to pay. They aren't mutually exclusive



Comments (25)

all these people are still the worst.
toddP has almost ruined going to other shows for me.
overpriced ticket, overpriced fees, overpriced drinks, unruly staff.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 4:38 PM

interesting way of phrasing that.

Posted by (((unartig))) | November 25, 2009 4:47 PM

yeah, i jumbled it.
i just meant to say that i have a hard time buying tickets and going to shows at venues as opposed to lofts. i know it sounds snotty, but i cant put up with asshole prices+crowds.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 4:50 PM

Comparing a Todd P show to a Live Nation show is like arguing that public access television has made it impossible for you to appreciate Lost. They are two completely different things with vastly different goals. Seeing Magik Markers play Madison Square Garden would be as undesirable as seeing Metallica at Market Hotel.

I've always felt very anti-Live Nation/Clear Channel, especially with some of the shit that has gone down around bands with whom I work. But I recently had an illuminating conversation with a promoter who works for them, and described how the company acted as the best possible security net for his family while he underwent medical problems. That got me to at least rethink my position of knee-jerk hatred to a corporation which has inarguably done a lot of bad in this world.

Posted by BaDaBen | November 25, 2009 4:56 PM

boycott!! don't buy tickets!! stay home and read a book by candle light.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 4:59 PM

if you think seeing Metallica at MH is undesirable then I can't help it but call you a fool (of sorts), sorry.
Willie Nelson at the Silent Barn, well worth the 10 to 12 bucks, ha!

not snotty at all. not everybody likes entertainment in a corporate environment. I guess what I was trying to say is, that ToddP has little to do with ones preference. unless, he as a person really opened your eyes about how things can be run differently on the surface. because lets not kid ourselves. in the very end its still business, even a toddP show. it is just a more charming atmosphere for those who dig places like Silent Barn, Market Hotel etc. (and yes, count me in on that). only on very very rare occasions I set foot into joints like Irving or whatnot...

Posted by (((unartig))) | November 25, 2009 5:15 PM

That's what you get for supporting shit like DMB and Phish.

Support the underground and real artists, not these Miller lite Ticketbastard cash cows.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 6:00 PM


phuck you.

Posted by phahahahaha | November 25, 2009 6:12 PM

I would not call Irving a "corporate" environment. How is the venue any different from say, Market Hotel? Bouncers that check IDs? The coat check? Do you see much branding?

Call me old-fashioned, but I like venues that have posted set times and non-death-trap exits.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 7:14 PM

7:14, c'mon. diy spaces aren't automatically death traps, and corporate places aren't necessarily 100% safe either. gathering a lot of people in any room has the potential for a lot of people being hurt in a tragedy. the world isn't safe. Subway stations don't have emergency exits, sprinklers, emergency lights, etc but we all spend a lot of time in them with a lot of other people all the time.

you also sound like you're definitely an insider at a big club, talking about "branding" and the rest. if you want to pretend to be a real objective anonymous poster, then maybe don't throw around industry jargon so confidently.

Otherwise it sounds a little like you're trying to exaggerate things to manipulate people into believing what's good for your company that people believe.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 7:43 PM

subway stations also feature massive trains barreling through them at high speed, and no guard rails. To mention a 7 foot drop off ledge when the train's not there

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 7:48 PM

call me naive, but the last time I checked Irving was handled by the biggest 'tycoon' in the live music biz. fair enough if that's not 'corporate' to you. different people different perceptions. all good.
call me naive again for believing that the folks putting on shows at Market Hotel are primarily motivated by their love for music. and yes, I'm stressing 'primarily'.
I would furthermore say, that establishments like Irving are far removed from such motivations which consequently brings us back to the term 'corporate environment'. but like I said, all good, different folks, different opinions. each to their own.

Posted by (((unartig))) | November 25, 2009 8:44 PM

7:14 here

"last time I checked Irving was handled by the biggest 'tycoon' in the live music biz."

Yes, I understand who the owner is, but my question still remains: how is the feeling different? I can see how venues like MSG or RCMH feel corporate with their souvenir stands and their branded styrofoam cups, but a place like Irving? I went twice last week (to see the Jesus Lizard). I went, saw the show, then left. At now point did it feel "corporate". No logos, except for the posters along the staircase wall, which are pretty cool (I collect posters). Sure, the beers are overpriced, but the bar around the corner has cheap beers to make up for it.

"you also sound like you're definitely an insider at a big club, talking about "branding" and the rest. if you want to pretend to be a real objective anonymous poster, then maybe don't throw around industry jargon so confidently."

Industry jargon? Branding is everywhere. I do not work at a big club. I do not work at a small club. I have never worked at any club at any point of my life (except for those rare times my band has gotten paid). I have been working in online media for a long time, I hear the word "brand" quite a lot, even though I am not involved in marketing.

And the Market Hotel is a death trap. Honestly, I don't care about who owns the club, I just want to see a show (and avoid having to go to Bushwick).

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 11:40 PM

11:40 / 7:14

you are very sheltered and that's really not something to be proud of.

hating / being afraid of Bushwick in 2010 is about as silly and conservative as bitching about "weirdos from the Village" in the 60's.

Posted by Anonymous | November 25, 2009 11:51 PM

T5's exits are totally a death trap.

Posted by Anonymous | November 26, 2009 1:28 AM

I personally don't mind going to huge corporate parties nor do I mind going to busted bushwick lofts... I just am a happy hummus eating music lover spreading positive energy through the power of the chickpea.

Posted by Anonymous | November 26, 2009 4:43 AM

first kudos to my hummus lover brother 4:43am !!
them, what's the difference between moms'n'pops irving of a decade ago and livenation owned irving of today? nothing, same place, love it or hate it. even same very nice door people.
and i'm not a livenation fan by any means.
plus you're all just talk, no one will boycott nothing here. that's america, land of the sucker and home of the trash-talker.
keep on paying $75 for 75 minutes of pixies,
good luck with that...

Posted by danny boy | November 26, 2009 5:35 AM


I'll give you an example of how Irving is corporate through the roof. Try to go there and shoot video, with the permission of the band of course and with a video camera, not a cell phone. You'll be charged $3000 per camera by the venue. It doesn't matter who you are or what you plan to do with the footage. Same goes for 'Bowery Presents', only it is cheaper at $500/cam (Ballroom/Music Hall). That's all fair and square. Their facilities, their rules. Plus this feeling of being 'policed' throughout the night by an army of bouncers is just not for me. It doesn't feel right. Luckily we are still free to choose what places to go. Me personally, I have never set foot into Bowery Ballroom/Mercury/T5/Webster/RCMH/MSG, went to Music Hall 3 times, mostly to do others a favor. Saw Ministry one last time at Irving in 2008, went to the Sisters of Mercy 2008 debacle at Irving because it was free and one more time for something my wife wanted to see. Out of an average 150 shows I see per year that is a minuscule percentage. dunno, but to me a sterile and clean club environment just doesn't mix with 'rock music'. Good thing that there are spots like Southpaw, who in theory are no less a business than Irving, only the whole vibe 150% different.

Irving is no less of a fire hazard death trap than MH btw. Once people would start pushing nobody 'd make it down Irving's or Market Hotel's stairs alive. There's a huge wide staircase in the back of MH, just in case you were only referring to the small narrow one that marks their entry.

Too bad you don't like to come out to Bushwick. You sound like a fun chap to discuss things with over a couple of beers. I'm not being sarcastic.

Your Bushwick Resident

Posted by (((unartig))) | November 26, 2009 8:13 AM


Posted by Anonymous | November 26, 2009 9:02 AM

Who goes to a show to shoot video? The show looks better when you are not looking at it thru a viewfinder. Live in the now, forget about the keepsake.

Posted by Anonymous | November 26, 2009 12:37 PM

the only real thing different is that the ticket prices have gone up a good amount. pretty much the same experience. oh, and fuck smelly industrial bushwick.

Posted by Anonymous | November 26, 2009 2:25 PM

someone should ask the live nation ceo about the death trap that was the oversold pixies shows, id like to have seen people try to get out of there in a fire. it was great watching the show from the lobby, thanks asshole

Posted by Anonymous | November 26, 2009 3:56 PM

that's really funny about NIN doing the right thing b/c I made over 1,000 bucks on the LA show at the echoplex.

Posted by Anonymous | November 27, 2009 11:21 PM

Pretty good article. I recently uncovered your site and want to declare that I've actually appreciated checking the articles you write.

Posted by Shayna | July 8, 2013 8:01 PM

Leave a Comment