Posted in music on January 25, 2010

Total Slacker @ St James Church (more by Vincent Cornelli)
Total Slacker

CatholicVoteAction.Org, Culture War Notes, and Aufer A Nobis all have posts claiming "abomination", "sacrilege" and "desecration" at St James Church on Friday, 1/15. They're referring to the Real Estate, Beach Fossils, The Beets, The Tony Castles & Total Slacker show (that Curren$y was also a special guest at). Videos from the event below...

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Comments (287)

have a feeling this will be good.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:38 PM

I don't think anyone comes out looking like a winner here

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:38 PM

i'm going to hell.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:41 PM

Ariel is the devil!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:41 PM

comment section needs 'popcorn' smiley

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:41 PM

Kinda have to side with the religious folks on this one. I was a little shocked this happened at a CATHOLIC church when I first saw the photos. Somebody really did drop the ball here. Beer cans on the altar are kind of a total no-no.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:42 PM

Pedophile priests are tolerated but live music, its SACRILEGE!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:44 PM

wow- these activist groups have way too much f*cking time on their hands... how do they even know about indie rock concerts anyway??

oh, b/c they were probably there!!!!!!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:45 PM

What if your dead lover's mausoleum was rented out for a Styx concert? I think it's kind of like that

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:47 PM

oh man I cannot wait to see how the comments on here evolve

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:50 PM

last I looked the Catholic Church was having trouble paying its bills, a show like this probably helped a little bit and probably brought more people into the church than have been there in a long time.

So long as the music wasn't openly denouncing the religion practiced within I can't see any reason that young people gathering together for art would be a bad thing.

And as for the booze, there's wine on that altar every Sunday and there is no rule in the Catholic religion prohibiting the imbibing of spirits.

The end.

Posted by Pat | January 25, 2010 4:54 PM

should follow up w/ black metal show 4 good measure

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:55 PM

The real crime is a lot of off-key singing in that bottom video.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:55 PM

it's desecrate, btw

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:57 PM

Did you mean: Desecrated?

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:57 PM

Total Slacker is an abomination no matter where they play.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 4:59 PM

doing this show in the actual church room was a dumbass move.

they have an activity center hall, you should have used that, idiots.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:01 PM

best quote.. dustin from beach fossils:

"hey everyone stand up! quit being so white!"

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:02 PM

why didn't they use the activity hall?

people puking and smoking weed in a church is not respectful. woulda been fine inn the activity hall

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:07 PM

Throw out the money changers!!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:08 PM

wtf happened- did they light jesus on fire? did they rape a nun? you know what? who cares- religion is a bunch of bullshit

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:08 PM

"jesus christ, these hipsters really hate religion"

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:11 PM

"And as for the booze, there's wine on that altar every Sunday and there is no rule in the Catholic religion prohibiting the imbibing of spirits."

Can you really not see how someone might be offended by a PBR on the altar? The wine on Sunday isn't from a jug of Carlo. I'm not religious by any stretch but the show trivializes what many people view as a sacred space. It seems pointless and pretty irresponsible, but would have been harmless if the flies weren't starting to swarm. It probably shouldn't have been taped.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:12 PM

THIS JUST IN: real estate is really boring!

Posted by john | January 25, 2010 5:17 PM

they shoulda done the decent thing and done the show at a mosque or synagogue.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:17 PM

so where were the activists when the YYY's played the Angel Orensanz Synagogue and Karen O was deep throating the microphone??

Oh wait- only church goers actually have time go complain about this sh*t

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:19 PM

"Total Slacker is an abomination no matter where they play."

good point

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:22 PM

god doesn't exist

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:27 PM

Take it from the people who specialize in ignoring pedophilia and promoting homophobia, THIS WAS AN OUTRAGE!!!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:29 PM

What's the big hubbub? God isn't even real.

Posted by Patrick | January 25, 2010 5:31 PM

After a few more Sundays of collection, the church should have enough funds to buy Bowery Ballroom, MHOW and turn them into Huckabee Palin 2012 campaign HQs!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:31 PM

Come on, guys. Let's be reasonable. You know the hipster community be up in arms if the Catholic Church started booking mass at Market Hotel and stank the place up with their incense ball thingy and general air of pro-life that floats all around them pig pen style. They leave your holy places alone, why you gotta fuck with theirs?

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:35 PM

god. ha.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:38 PM

mehligion.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:42 PM

jesus had some good shit back in the day, but he sold out when he decided to write that shitty best seller.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:45 PM

Let's be reasonable and just realize this wasn't the best idea. Why a church really? And booze all over the place? I'm not even religious but this just doesn't sit right.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:48 PM

5:42: Finally, a decent "meh."

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:52 PM

5:48- you're a loser... does it really matter? it's not like they're still having services there. at least the space is being used

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:56 PM

i actually wish they were still having services there- so all of the church goers would have to show up at 4am to clean up the joint for sunday morning mass... the place would still smell like beer and weed. now that's my kind of mass!

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:58 PM

and so everyone is clear- this is NOT the first ever concert in a church and it won't be the last. so get over it

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 5:59 PM

remember all those people that died in haiti like a week ago? why don't all of you put the same effort into that, instead of bs-ing on the BV posts

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:00 PM

Church acoustics can't fix those vocals

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:00 PM

Comments could be better here folks, pick it up.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:03 PM

church sucks... how's that 6:03?

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:04 PM

"Total Slacker is an abomination no matter where they play."

good point


So glad this was stated! Also lol @ "mehligion"

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:05 PM

maybe gary glitter would have gone over better there?

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:10 PM

I heard the place was totally trashed by the end of the show - beer cans and cigarette butts everywhere.

I'm not religious but beer, puking, cigarettes and pot at a church, with the remnants left for others to clean up is kinda like.... Letting your friend have people over to your house without you there and coming back and finding people crapped over your place. I don't think it's a religious issue as much as a respect issue.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:12 PM

anyone know the name of the song real estate is playing in that video? its tight

Posted by 123 | January 25, 2010 6:16 PM

the catholic church = biggest terror organization
in history of human kind.

Posted by anon | January 25, 2010 6:39 PM

Surprising amount of diversionary comments here

I wonder what Curren$y has to say about all this? Maybe he should collab with Fr. Walter Tonelotto

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:43 PM

let us proclaim the MEHstery of faith

Posted by The Mehnsignor | January 25, 2010 6:58 PM

points

1. total slacker sucks so much

2. in the catholic religion the altar is sacred and is bound in practice and rules- you're not even supposed to touch it. its just a matter of respect- it doesn't cease being a church once mass is over so these are rules one should respect as much as they should respect the rules at any other venue or anywhere that belongs to someone. === why would anyone really have a show here?

3. total slacker : just go home or go back to school.

4. total slacker kind of sucks a lot.

5. total slacker; did you push yourself onto this bill as well?

6. total slacker :: ok you like weed smoke- um why are you a band?

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:04 PM

total slacker to any other band on that bill: "yeah, so we forgot our amps, and instruments... and we didn't really bother to write songs either.... uhm.... could we borrow yours?"

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:20 PM

I was at the show as soon as Real Estate finished playing they started cleaning everything up and the conditions were not as bad as they were making them seem.

Posted by JP | January 25, 2010 7:22 PM

the Catholics are just mad they don’t have any scantily clad hipster bikers riding into their neighborhood

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:24 PM

6th and I synagogue in DC hosts 'indie' rock shows from a bunch of big acts. you don't see us complaining.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:29 PM

Someone please call out Pink Floyd for disrespecting the dead by performing atop them at Pompeii

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:44 PM

To make up for it, the hipster community is going to let the Catholic church celebrate Sunday mass at The Cake Shop.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:45 PM

Less Apostles More Coolkids

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:48 PM

FEWER apostles

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:51 PM

Were the concert promoters trying to piss off the church or just completely oblivious?

Posted by Aaron | January 25, 2010 8:08 PM

Nevermind, I take it back. I wouldn't really know anything about Catholics either, so who am I to judge?

Posted by Aaron | January 25, 2010 8:12 PM

beer soaked show in a church = stupid arrogance

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:16 PM

6:58: That is one the best Mehs I've heard in a long time. I tip my hat to you.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:31 PM

Real Estate has come, The Beets have risen, Total Slacker will come again

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:33 PM

HAHAHA!! How'd you know Total Slacker pushed themselves onto this bill, 7:04pm? THATS'S KINDA THERE THING NOW.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:35 PM

In the name of the father, the son, and the holy WAVVES.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:37 PM

When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Vivian Girls, until you come in glory.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:39 PM

Beach House, by your cross and resurrection, you have set us free. You are the Saviour of the world.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:40 PM

From one of those sites' comment section:

"Columcille
January 25, 2010

It is clear from the video and the photos that the tabernacle lamp is lit, meaning the Blessed Sacrament was in the tabernacle at the time of this outrage."

Hahahaha! Don't get me wrong. I'm a practicing Catholic, I go to church every Sunday (I think most of it is due to growing up on a diet of Catholic guilt after years and years of being subjected to parochial education) and I'm pretty satisfied with my faith, but outrage like this is really the shit that makes me just want to yell back at them, "Chill the fuck out and stop taking everything so seriously, already! No wonder everyone thinks you're all a bunch of oblivious Kool Aid drinking nut cases!" There's a certain level of sacredness and respect involved with all religions, but this is fucking stupid. If someone took a piss on a Jesus statue and lit a crucifix on fire, then I'd see a problem with that, but this is classic Catholic Church: Turning something that's fun and innocent and making it into the devil because it's "different."
I have a message for all these religious blog writers: JESUS LOVES REAL ESTATE TOO!


Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:45 PM

TOTAL SLACKER SUCKS WORSE THAN CATHOLICISM. ESPECIALLY THE ASSHOLE WITH THE SHADES.

WHAT A CLASSIC DESPERATE TO BE NOTICED FAKER.

WHAT A JOKER.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 8:47 PM

DUEDS !!

MAKE A JOYFUL NOIZE !! ! ! !!! !!

Posted by chim chim | January 25, 2010 8:49 PM

They should book Mayhem to play this church.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:03 PM

Don't do it Meh guy... it's too easy

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:06 PM

anyone claiming the catholic church is super uptight has obviously never lived in the rest of the country, where the far right protestants rule the show.

if you think catholics are "aqntifun," then check out the southern baptists.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:22 PM

The organ solo kicked ass

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:22 PM

Can someone seriously explain to me why the fuck any band would consider playing in a church like that in the first place? Its NYC! You're going to tell me that even a warehouse wasn't available that night??

What's next? A mosque? yeah right. Try pulling that one off you pussies.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:37 PM

Who thought this would be a good idea? Church + Beer + Morons (I'm lookin at you NYU freshman drinking for the first time). Go back to listening to your shitty bands on awful PA systems in your parents basements cause it's "fun" and "different". Grow up.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:48 PM

There's room in hell for all of 'em, 9:22 (1).

7:24 and 7:45, A WINRAR IS YOU!

Religious fundamentalists of all stripes can go fuck themselves.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 9:50 PM

I am not religious, but this show went too far. Beer on the altar? Crowd surfing? That act was incredibly inconsiderate.

I wanted to go to this show, but I had other plans. I knew the show was inside a church, but not on the altar!

The church is better suited for more subdued music, not rock bands. Too bad these bands ruined it for future shows.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 11:08 PM

pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our MEH

AMEHN

I'm Catholic & you know what I think is desecration? A pope who fought for the Germans in WW2.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 11:25 PM

Comments could be better here folks, pick it up.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 6:03 PM

6th and I synagogue in DC hosts 'indie' rock shows from a bunch of big acts. you don't see us complaining.

Posted by Anonymous | January 25, 2010 7:29 PM

Sure spilt beer in a synagogue Im sure wouldnt fly not to mention Brooklyn has numerous cases of Rabbi and Orthodox guys molesting hundreds if not much more than the Catholic church its just that the Orthodox community cries racism and gets a lawyer to shut up the kids. Its even on the news very recently and in the NY Times often.

Now wouldnt it be funny if Billy Grahams kid was singing Gregorian chants in Silent Barn or market hotel. That might be too hip.

But the truth is is that Christian and Jewish religious history has lots of drunk, odd ritualistic behaviour uncovered by religious scholars.

According to The Living Torah, cannabis was an ingredient of holy anointing oil mentioned in various sacred Hebrew texts. The herb of interest is most commonly known as kaneh-bosm (Hebrew: קְנֵה-בֹשֶׂם). This is mentioned several times in the Old Testament as a bartering material, incense, and an ingredient in holy anointing oil used by the high priest of the temple. Although Chris Bennett's research in this area focuses on cannabis, he mentions evidence suggesting use of additional visionary plants such as henbane, as well.

The Septuagint translates kaneh-bosm as calamus, and this translation has been propagated unchanged to most later translations of the old testament. However, Polish anthropologist Sula Benet published etymological arguments that the Aramaic word for hemp can be read as kannabos and appears to be a cognate to the modern word 'cannabis', with the root kan meaning reed or hemp and bosm meaning fragrant. Both cannabis and calamus are fragrant, reedlike plants containing psychotropic compounds.

Although philologist John Marco Allegro has suggested that the self-revelation and healing abilities attributed to the figure of Jesus may have been associated with the effects of the plant medicines [from the Aramaic: "to heal"], this evidence is dependent on pre-Septuagint interpretation of Torah and Tenach, and goes firmly against the accepted teachings of the Holy See. However Merkur contends that a minority of Christian hermits and mystics could possibly have used entheogens, in conjunction with fasting, meditation and prayer.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:43 AM

oh fucking baloney. you shouldn't have had drunk puking rich nyu students in the pews of a church and you know it.

show some fucking respect for places others find spiritually enriching. If this had happened in a buddhist temple or in machu pichu you'd all be crying about the ignorant Americans and their lack of respect for consecrated places.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:17 AM

total slacker, your gimmick isn't interesting

look at what people think of the wavves.

no one cares that you smoke weed and dropped out of school to be in total slacker.

no one cares

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 3:15 AM

The altar is where the re-presentation of Our Lord's sacrifice takes place. Sure you may find it odd if you don't believe this, but is it right to defile space that is held to be very sacred to many millions of people throughout the world? I ask the bandmembers and those in attendance if they would feel comfortable holding a concert with weed, beer, and body surfing in a mosque. If that happened, the mainstream media would quickly condemn it and the members of the mosque might take matters into their own hands.

As for the comments about the pedophiles, it's correct that so many members of the Church - including bishops - are in need of great repentance over these abominable acts. The fact of the matter is that over 4 of 5 acts of abuse committed by priests were carried out against post-pubescent males. By definition this is not pedophilia, but rather homosexual abuse. It does not make the crime/sin any less, especially since most of those abused were minors. But if we hope to root out this problem, we have to focus on the offenders and why they committed such acts. In the vast majority of cases, it was homosexual men who had been ordained as priests doing the damage. A whole different set of abominable acts were committed by any bishops who shuffled these priests around without removing them from ministry and, when warranted, contacting law enforcement. But while the mainstream media bashes the Church for taking measures to ensure that she (the Church) no longer ordains men with homosexual leanings, they should note that this is truly an attempt to weed out men who statistically were the overwhelming cause of the abuse problems. We also must take note that many other Christian churches, Jewish rabbis, etc have had terrible problems with sexual abuse, but they receive only a fraction of the attention that the Church receives. Or we can also take a look at the Washington DC's school chief who just admitted that many teachers who were fired in recent years had been having sex with students. This is a woman who was recently praised by President Obama. Why hasn't the spotlight been shined on this issue? Or what about Obama's safe school czar Kevin Jennings, who advised a student to NOT report a teacher who was making sexual advances and who took part in a conference that promoted the sick homosexual practice of "fisting"?

Posted by Bridgeport Guy | January 26, 2010 9:28 AM

Very well said, Bridgeport Guy. The concert organizers have set themselves up for an easy slam dunk lawsuit by deliberately misleading the church staff. The pictures and videos will serve well in a civil trail.

Also to those who don't "believe", your "unbelief" does not make God go away any more than you can wish away gravity. Atheism is simply a belief system and a religion in and of itself, without any more "proof" than other religions. The only difference is that it has absolutely nothing to offer.

Posted by Irene | January 26, 2010 9:38 AM

oh wow, Bridgeport Guy and Irene! I haven't seen you dudes since that Negative Approach show at South Paw! How have you been?!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 9:44 AM

I support the idea of a lawsuit as well, and have begun contacting interested firms in taking on this group of misleading crooks. The funds won will be used to clean the Sanctuary as well as be sent to Haiti for the relief efforts of the Catholic Relief Services. Other funds won from the lawsuit will be used for Pro-Life and Pro-Real-Marriage (1 man and 1 woman ONLY) causes.

The vast majority of the nation is solidly against this type of debauchery, and the time is now to start to take it apart.

Posted by Tor | January 26, 2010 9:49 AM

1:17am nailed it.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:09 AM

nailed it. heh

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:12 AM

"Now wouldnt it be funny if Billy Grahams kid was singing Gregorian chants in Silent Barn or market hotel."

I don't think that'd be funny...I think that'd be FUCKING AWESOME!!!

Todd P...get on that.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:20 AM

lol at the Catholic homophobes that have wandered in [Bridgeport Guy, Irene & Tor].

Don't you know you're supposed to just be anonymous when you talk a bunch of senseless shit? Go back to your Catholic message board, please.

Look, the only reason that there can be a problem here is if the organizers of the show misled people in regard to what kind of event was taking place. If they were forthright that there would be bands & alcohol and they got permission to host the show, then THERE IS NO PROBLEM.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:24 AM

This is a disgrace and it will be stopped. This was a major mistake on the part of Less Artists More Condos and Ariel Panero. What were they thinking? They weren't and it was baaaaaad idea.

Posted by Anony | January 26, 2010 10:54 AM

Agreed. Panero took one step too far. This will signal the end of this outfit.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:57 AM

Yeah they went too far, which is too bad because it was fun for a while. But you've got to know your limits, and the NYPD are not going to put up with complaints from churches. Its over.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:59 AM

Total slacker haters: GET IN ON THE IN JOKE

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:00 AM

Irene, Bridgeport guy, and Tor are turds

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:27 AM

Heterosexual people fist, too.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:28 AM

Jesus probably did, too.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:28 AM

It's a shame that there are still some people that are so religious that they forget how to have a good time. it's just music people, everybody relax. it's not like someone was killed in there.....

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:41 AM

This is nothing...
one of the best... Diamanda Galas at Saint John Devine..Plague Mass 1984

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:44 AM

who cares what the religious conservative nuts think, but it doesn't change the fact that this was a fucking stupid idea to do in the actual church.

should've happened in the activity center...

but if you haven't figured out yet that these particular show organizers want to maximize attention and press coverage over all other concerns (ie disregarding what was obviously poor judgement, terrible acoustics, and in the case of Total Slacker: really really bad booking choices).

Ariel Panero just wants to be famous, and quick. He is becoming a famous ass, quickly.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:45 AM

thanks Ariel Panero. While it's true that close-mindedness and sensational posts on Catholic message boards are driving the witch hunt here...

that doesn't change the fact that the fall out of this will be that every Catholic church in the New York diocese will now be getting a memo from the Bishop recommending they turn down requests to use their facilities for concerts, no matter whether the requests are for the churches themselves or the activity centers attached to them.

If you'd shown some respect for things other people hold sacred, then this would not be the case. you have a responsibility to, well, be responsible.

Thanks for shutting down literally hundreds of potential venue spaces, ie: Catholic church activity halls.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:52 AM

Oh no beer in a church... gimme a freakin break..

Catholic Monks make money making and selling - Beer!


Last time I checked there is singing and music at churches all the time.

THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES TO WORRY ABOUT.

STFU.

fucking whiney religious crap. its a building. religious is FAKE.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:01 PM

@ IRene "The only difference is that it has absolutely nothing to offer."

HOW ABOUT FREEDOM TO THINK FOR MYSELF??!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:05 PM

Yup, this spells the end for Less Artists More Condos and Ariel Panero's business ventures. He will likely be sued out of house and home, and this type of activity will become a thing of the past.

Oh yes, and unbelief is a belief, and it still doesn't make God go away. Nothing can and nothing will. Nice try through. Its not too late for you. Turn away from all of the sex, drugs, and terrible lifestyle choices you're making and embrace the Truth, who is Jesus.

Posted by The Beet's Drummer | January 26, 2010 12:05 PM

Oh yes, and unbelief is a belief, and it still doesn't make Santa go away. Nothing can and nothing will. Nice try though.

Posted by elf power | January 26, 2010 12:10 PM

drunk rich college kids smoking weed and puking don't belong in a church.

leave your sophomore anti-theism out of the discussion. The simple fact is that this show didn't have to be in a church, and didn't have to be so unsupervised and rowdy...

it's fucking arrogant and rude to the congregation who worship their idea of a god there.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:11 PM

What time does Daft Punk go to hell?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:13 PM

"He will likely be sued out of house and home"

How very Catholic of you and your minions of Jeebus.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:16 PM

Atheism is most definitely NOT a "belief system" or a "a religion in and of itself". It is simply a rejection of those beliefs and the idea of religion. Nothing more to say really. "God" is an abstract, man-made idea, that doesn't actually exist. This is all I believe as an atheist. There is no "system" of ideas, just the rejection of an abstract notion.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:17 PM

12:17, how's the 8th grade working out for you?

If the universe is infinitive then, like, what's on the other side? like maybe there are whole universes inside each atom in our bodies. wow.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:20 PM

infinitive = infinite. I type stupid... but not as stupid as garden variety antitheisism

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:22 PM

12:27 wrote: "This is all I believe as an atheist."

This is all I BELIEVE as an atheist.

This is all I BELIEVE

I BELIEVE

Yes, try again telling us its not a belief system. You believe in something you cannot prove. Its a faith, and a pretty sorry and empty on at that.

You said it yourself...you BELIEVE. I believe to, in the Truth, which is Jesus Christ YOUR God and Creator just as much as the rest of us. You can believe otherwise, but you're still believing and you're still failing.

Posted by Irene | January 26, 2010 12:29 PM

12:29- jesus freak

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:34 PM

Absolutely. Better to be a slave of Christ than a slave of disease, immorality, depression, drug abuse, sex abuse, infidelity, arrogance, greed, and death. Its your choice, and even though you've made the wrong one, its not too late. However, I pray for you, because I know that in your deepest, darkest moments alone at night, when you're feeling awfully empty inside and alone, He is the only one you can turn to, and He will always be there no matter what. All you have to do is be open to love, or else you're open to death.

Posted by Irene | January 26, 2010 12:46 PM

This is all I BELIEVE as an r&b singer

This is all I BELIEVE

I BELIEVE I CAN FLY

Posted by r. kelly | January 26, 2010 12:47 PM

bring back conan

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 12:51 PM

In a church,by the face, he talks about the people going under. Only child know...

A man decides after seventy years, that what he goes there for, is to unlock the door. While those around him criticize and sleep, and through a fractal on a breaking wall, I see you my friend, and touch your face again. Miracles will happen as we trip.

But we're never gonna survive, unless...
We get a little crazy
No we're never gonna survive, unless...
We are a little...

Cray...cray...cray...

Posted by Seal | January 26, 2010 12:51 PM

Good post, Irene! Like you, I would open my door to anyone here should they need me. I gave my last paycheck to Haitian relief efforts. I volunteer at the local crisis pregnancy center, helping young women set up adoptions for their children. I have been to Africa six times, working in relief zones and AIDS homes. I help homosexual AIDS victims here at home in the US as well. I don't post my name here. I don't seek approval. I don't do it because I want to be famous or patted on the back. I do it because God asked us to love Him, and in order to love Him, we have to love each other. I was an atheist for many years before I discovered this, and it changed my life absolute.

To trample on that, especially at my parish at St. James, is offensive and insulting, but not surprising. I deal with evil everyday, and it never wins, but it causes much pain. Ariel Panero has caused much pain and distress. I hope it was worth the damage you have caused.

Posted by Anon | January 26, 2010 1:00 PM

Coco > Irene

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:05 PM

I heard John the Baptist is playing drums in Wavves on their next tour.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:07 PM

What happened here crossed the line and was illegal, and the authorities have been notified.

What a sad and oppressive thing to do the people who worship there. Basically, Ariel Panero and the people who participated there are no better than those who persecute others for their beliefs, and spit in their faces. They are no better than Muslim fundamentalists who stone women. They are no better than Nazi stooges who raped women and burned down Jewish homes and houses of worship. You are a shameful bunch.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:08 PM

How is it not malicious to post the promoter's name? Wait a second, is there hypocrisy mixing with religion??? Now THATS unheard of.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:08 PM

Who gives a fuck what the CHURCH thinks? They have a problem with the movie Avatar. Sure, it sucks, but it's certainly not sinful. Fuck the church. The only reason they are still relevant is because of rampant ignorance.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:10 PM

1:08, actually it's very different. Actually you're a turd.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:11 PM

Ariel Panero committed a crime, and it will be treated as such. Basically, what happened here, by Less Artists More Condos, was a hate crime. They deliberately lied to the church staff, trashed the sacredness of the church, and then bragged about it here and elsewhere online. Then they got caught. And now, they're facing very heavy consequences. All of his, and LAMC info is public information and is in the hands of the right people.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:14 PM

i was there, and as a neo-christian, the vibe was... weird. drinking alcohol in church happens during the eucharist as part of a sacrament, and usually people don't leave garbage behind afterwards. it's a different context. you wouldn't want someone taking a dump in your bathroom sink would you?

whether or not you agree with the religious dogma of the church, you have to concede that this isn't the bowery ballroom or the cake shop. there's a time and a place for everything, and whoever it was at st. james who allowed the show to be booked was just as clueless as the promoters.

Posted by dr_ultimately | January 26, 2010 1:16 PM

I've been in NYC for a long time. This isn't the first time Panero and LAMC has lied to venues and taken advantage of people's niavate. And now, it may be their last. This is the type of behavior we hate in the music community. We're about love, music, having fun, and not hurting anyone. The truth is, we really hurt this church and lot of other people. We've become what we hate, and I have to admit that I am sick about it.

Posted by AceofBase | January 26, 2010 1:21 PM

seriously- who died? why is this such a big issue? b/c people drank beer inside of a church?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:28 PM

Come on Cahtolics, have meh-rcy

Posted by Uncle Jesse | January 26, 2010 1:32 PM

1:28, the pastor and the church members are deeply offended, embarrassed, and are dealing with a flood of phone calls and emails trying to find out what went wrong. To them, it is worse than puking and dancing on your wife or mother's dead body. It is deeply offensive, so much so many are outraged, crying, and otherwise emotional. I am connected to the parish, and I can tell you it is a terrible scene. And no apologies from LAMC or Panero. No apologies for the pain they've caused. They have committed a hate crime, as someone said above, no different than homophobes, nazis, and other criminals.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:36 PM

Jesus, MEHry & Joseph, you all need to chill out!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:39 PM

This type of abuse by Panero and his minions is unbelievable and will not go unpunished by the law or civil courts.

Posted by Strong | January 26, 2010 1:42 PM

I think the reason they're so upset is that it makes them think their god either doesn't exist, or has no problem with such things, otherwise he'd have done something to prevent/stop it

It's their silly little egos that have been hurt, i'm sure god wouldn't need their help in fixing this if he wanted to

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:49 PM

This whole ugly scene started by Panero and LAMC is just starting. As more and more people, media, and authorities learn of this group, the worse its going to get. Was it really worth it?

Posted by Irene | January 26, 2010 1:51 PM

This type of abuse by Panera and their mortadella is non-Atkins approved and will not go unpunished by your waistline or Weight Watchers.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:52 PM

All y'all coming in here thinking you're making a stink by repeating Ariel's name over and over need to get straight fucked.

If he lied about what was going to happen that night, then show some proof. It would be right to get angry if he did lie, but basically all you're doing right now is slandering his name bc you think that if you tell enough people from your church to post here that it will make it seem like this is a Big Deal.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:56 PM

i think we woke a sleeping giant on this, and now we're screwed. seriously, you should read some of the sites and blogs. they're talking huge legal action,s hutting panero down, and destroying the diy scene completely. way to go, guys. couldnt just leave it alone

Posted by Dr. Dobbalina | January 26, 2010 1:56 PM

If the comments keep up, this thread may very well surpass the Wizard Dick post. GO BV GO!!!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:57 PM

ehhhh well, I am a pretty strong atheist but this probably shouldn't have happened INSIDE THE CHURCH. whether you believe in the church or not is irrelevant; this is a matter of simple respect.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 1:57 PM

soooo... who died again?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:06 PM

sounds like the church didn't do their research on this 1... what did they think was gonna happen by allowing a rock concert to take place inside? everyone was going to hold hands and pray? sounds like the church is pretty naive

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:08 PM

Every Williamsburg beardo could be extras in Jesus Christ Superstar.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:13 PM

Matthew 5:43

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:16 PM

IT'S ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:29 PM

Wait... Was the naked wizard there?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:30 PM

Congrats on this stellar press for Real Estate

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:37 PM

tHE SKY IS FALLING !!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 2:49 PM

Lots of talk here about punishment for the "offenders." How very Catholic.

YOU were responsible for renting your holy shrine to a bunch of idiots. Quit your bellyaching, drop your standard persecution complex, and TURN THE OTHER CHEEK. No one's forcing you to rent to them, or anyone else, again.

...and Catholics would be well-advised to drop all references to Nazis. The rest of the world is well aware of your Nazi Pope, and the church's involvement with the Nazis in WWII.

It's amazing that an organization that historically has caused so much suffering would bring attention to itself, and its continued crimes against humanity, by squealing that THEY'VE been wronged.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 3:05 PM

Stuff White People Like, #2: Religions that their parents don’t belong to.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 3:13 PM

never thought i'd see the day where church goers are actually posting on BV. freakin' hilarious

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 4:18 PM

@ 1:36- if this caused that much pain, i'd hate to see how you and your friends reacted after the earthquake in haiti. 160K dead? were you and your crew crying then? or only when people drink beer in the church?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 4:50 PM

More concerts in churches the acoustics are great! And beer tastes better!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 5:14 PM

The only crime committed here was that no one has the foresight to try to kick Agnes out of bed to help them cover In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 5:23 PM

We at the Catholic Church? (What?) We at the Rock Venue? (What?) We at the combination Catholic Church and Rock Venue (Huh?)

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 5:23 PM

You morons truly are clueless!

Posted by Rufael | January 26, 2010 5:36 PM

"I'd hit it" - Luke 18: 9-14

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 5:36 PM

no rufael, you are clueless... notice how all of the 'in the know' people remain anonymous? and notice how all of the jesus freaks leave their real names? dork

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 5:48 PM

I don't get what the big deal is about a concert on the alter is, it's already been done in Sister Act.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 5:54 PM

^-------- and Blues Brothers

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 6:21 PM

i hate drunk nyu kids and total slacker as much as the next person with taste, but really, who the fuck cares? this is an organization whose representatives have abused children, and whose official policy is discrimination against homosexuals.

really surprising to see some of the bv leftist crowd get all milquetoast when it comes to "respecting" archaic institutions

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 6:24 PM

god doesn't care about black people.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 6:34 PM

6:24, your organization's representatives have also abused children if that logic of yours is any indication.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 6:39 PM

God doesn't care about indie-rock

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 6:44 PM

I don't know. I heard God was into Beach House.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 7:29 PM

DC public school teachers have been discovered sexually abusing hundreds of students for decades, and shifting teachers around. Hmmmmmmm.....

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 8:34 PM

why are we talking about this and not still talking about what a douche the total slacker fuck is?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 9:16 PM

hate crime! hate crime! beer crime!

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 9:23 PM

Ariel Panero and LAMC went way too far. This was totally disrespectful, hateful, and criminal. The evidence has been gathered, prior to some of it being removed. This type of thing will never happen again, that will be made clear.

Posted by legion | January 26, 2010 9:39 PM

wow, these people sure know how to start bullshit web campaigns.. control + f "panero" and look at all the "YOU'RE GOING DOWN" shit.. what christian-like behavior

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:04 PM

pffffffffffffffffft.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:06 PM

I mean its just more evidence of priorities that I can't understand. Someone should be worried about how they're gonna feed their kids (/lose their job) because they wanted to make money for a church?

Another triumph for the Catholic Church

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:12 PM

Hahaha, can't get over this quote:

""Ariel Panero and the people who participated there are no better than Nazi stooges who raped women and burned down Jewish homes and houses of worship."

Would these be the same Nazi stooges Pope Pius XII turned a blind eye to while they were raping their way through Italy's Jewish communities?

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 10:47 PM

I wonder if the people angry are the same people who stand in the middle of my campus with tshirts on that say "GOD HATES FAGS"

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:26 PM

Top Jewish leaders: Pius XII did more to save Jews than all of the allies combined. 800,000 and still counting. More than Roosevelt. More than Churchill.

Try again. The man is going to be named a saint in our lifetimes, and there is nothing you and your lies can do about it.

Oh, and by the way, LAMC is finished.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:51 PM

the catholic church is a fucking joke. anyone taking this seriously is retarded. hateful? give me a fucking break.

Posted by Anonymous | January 26, 2010 11:51 PM

This comment war is like watching the movie 'Footloose' being reenacted, only less Bacontastic.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 12:04 AM

great comment war but we got a ways to go before we reach the glory of Bedford Ave Election Night Cop Riot '08!

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2008/11/obama_revelers.html

YES WE CAN

Posted by Father Hans Kung | January 27, 2010 12:08 AM

The term "Bacontastic" is simply not used enough. Thank you, 12:04.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 12:12 AM

Pitchfork gave this controversy a 4.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 12:52 AM

The comment at 1:52 about Panera was classic. Best post of the thread. I heard Pantera was also on hand at the desecration.

Posted by Jessie | January 27, 2010 4:15 AM

As someone who has done more shows in churches than probably anyone else in the world - I could never ever imagine in 10000X years to do a show in a catholic church. Like seriously...worst idea of all time.

I would love to know how the show was presented to the church !

Posted by Sean | January 27, 2010 4:21 AM

It's a shame that there are still some people that are so religious that they forget how to have a good time. it's just music people, everybody relax. it's not like someone was killed in there.....

Yes well said. Irene and Brideport guy settle down and deal with these people one on one if they made a mess and make them pay for it. End of story because all denominations of Judea Christian churches are corrupt beyond belief.

Without an enemy you folks have nothing at all.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 4:45 AM

Its a shame that Panero lied and misled the church staff in order to put on a terrible show full of awful music and underaged/unlicensed drinking. The NYPD is being filled in on the details.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 9:19 AM

Panero lied, Jesus died

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 9:53 AM

Wait. Now it's just "unlicensed drinking"? What happened to the puking and weed smoke? Oh, I guess it's all right to lie if you do it on the internet in support of your church.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 10:52 AM

fuck the catholic church.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 10:58 AM

woops, sorry that kind of slipped out. but seriously, were supposed to care about this? the catholic church is responsibly for some of the most horrible atrocities of human existence.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 11:03 AM

THink of the children... Music kills.

The church is the only thing protecting us from music and gay people. Can't you people see that?? I for one am going to continue to donate 10% of my income to the church. Jesus died for my sins (I have cursed before)... it's the least I can do.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 2:35 PM

The, um, "live-video-projection" guy puts his two cents in:

http://www.viceland.com/blogs/en/2010/01/27/the-beets-are-going-to-hell/

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 2:40 PM

11:26, the Westboro Baptist Church also hates the Catholic Church. So, fail.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 3:46 PM

Tags: "god's going to sue you", beach fossil, Beets, catholic blowhards, catholics, dumb internet controversies, st james church, the dumbs, total slacker

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 3:51 PM

I, and millions other who are better informed, always laugh at the accusations lobbed at the Catholic Church for committing "atrocities". Never mind the fact that those accusations hold no water. Never mind the fact that they have been continuously debunked time and time again both by scholars within and without the Church.

Just keep watching the DaVinci Code and enslaving yourself to Hollywood. Maybe you'll be famous! LOL

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 3:54 PM

Last night there was a clip about the upcoming 11 o'clock news that mentioned an awful crime and the church. I stuck around to watch, thinking it might be about the St. James show. Story ended up being about a child porn accusations instead. Speaks volumes, doesn't it? http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=7241280

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 4:28 PM

Actually what speaks volumes is the enormous amount of sexual abuse in public schools, such as the most recent hundreds of cases in DC, and how public schools are urging the government and media to keep silent. The crimes of the atheists and others in public schools FAR outweigh the crimes of any church or private entity. In short, you fail once again.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 5:29 PM

"The atheists" are not a group. They are individuals that have decided that groups such as yours are utter bullshit. They don't convene and celebrate the death of your god. Rather, the best of them go on with their lives and find reasons other than holy mandate (such as genuine compassion) for caring for their brother, as it were. Many of their lives have been indelibly scarred by your organizations and wish you would stop "spreading the good word."

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 5:39 PM

The pro-church comments in this thread are some of the best tongue-in-cheek satire I've read in a while. Kudos to whomever came up with them.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 5:44 PM

Jesus, Josesph & MEHry, you Catholics need to shut the fuck up already!

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 5:46 PM

there was weed smoking and puking in the church, don't claim the contrary

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 5:51 PM

That dc thing isn't real so stop mentioning it.

Is The Catholic Church a force for good in the world?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuPfymsbNkE

watch until the end; it's really good.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 6:34 PM

The DC thing is VERY real, and no, we won't stop mentioning it. It is just the tip of the iceberg. Public schools have sexually abused more children than any other institution in the U.S., public or private.

Here is a news link for you:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Sex-scandals-a-_tricky-topic_-for-area-schools-82814342.html

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 6:44 PM

Father Barron basically owns all atheists here:
http://www.wordonfire.org/WOF-TV/Commentaries-New/Father-Barron-on-The-New-Atheists.aspx

If you don't know anything about the Catholic Church, and almost all on here are completely uninformed, his site will basically destroy your ignorance in a charming and correct manner:

http://www.wordonfire.org/WOF-TV/Commentaries-New.aspx

Enjoy! And I won't even say "I told you so" when you realize how very wrong you were.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 6:46 PM

Here is not surprising news:

NYC Abortion Clinic murders a mother of four:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jan/10012707.html

No such thing as safe abortion. Not only does it kill a baby, it more often than not kills a woman too!

End Abortion. NOW.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 6:51 PM

Hundreds of cases in DC? That article you linked to as "proof" only mentioned a couple of cases. wtf? Your "proof" of these hundreds of cases is about as flimsy as your "proof" of God's existence.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:01 PM

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:02 PM

"more often than not kills a woman too!"

More often than not? That's a mighty astounding charge. Care to back that up with any evidence?

No...I didn't think so.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:04 PM

"it more often than not kills a woman too!"

you are a big bag of stupid. go huff a bag of dicks, and take your lies with you.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:05 PM

here is a video on the REAL Church:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql_7jnp--UE&feature=player_embedded

owned

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:06 PM

ha, abortion kills women proof? thats easy. China has a deficit of 24 million women as a result of the selective abortions of girls in the womb.

Abortion kills more women than war, disease, and poverty all in one.

sorry, you lose. especially if your a woman!

Its also a fact that not only does planned parenthood kill more women than anyone else, they also selectively choose to kill more BLACK and HISPANIC women than anyone else. Talk about racist!

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:09 PM

China is not alone in killing more women than anyone! Abortion kills more women than anything else in the world:

http://hli.org/index.php/abortion/134?task=view

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:11 PM

"Father Barron basically owns all atheists here:"

Hilarious. Religion is the only way for life not to be absurd? Well... that's just absurd.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:12 PM

Pastor Richard Astley owns all churchie types here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnQVkGcn7Vo

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:13 PM

OOPS, here is more proof that abortion, especially LEGAL abortion, kills tons of women:

http://hli.org/index.php/abortion/332?task=view

Ariel Panero committed a crime against the ONLY people in the world who care about human lives. Against the ONLY people in the world who care about the poor. Against the ONLY people in the world who care about the sick, the unborn, mothers, fathers, children, and the elderly.

Panero and LAMC need to be held responsible for their crime.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:13 PM

man you better shut up about Panero!

Here is a real video on your group:
http://www.youtube.com/frfrankpavone#p/a/1D719AEF8790CA52/0/us_y9GP_-DA

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:15 PM

The only crime Panero is guilty of is promoting an evening of such horrible music.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:17 PM

Catholic Church gets basically dismantled in this seething takedown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:18 PM

Please join me and CultureWarNotes.com as we bring Gwar to St. Patrick's Cathedral on April 20 (yes, 4/20!) in support of Planned Parenthood.

Stay tuned for more details!

Posted by Fr. Frank Pavone | January 27, 2010 7:19 PM

Wow. A lot going on here.

Can you imagine what the response would be to some of these comments if they were saying “you Muslims need to shut the fuck up already” or “you Jews need to shut the fuck up already?” That’s fucking ignorant, and saying things like “you Catholics need to shut the fuck up already” is just as stupid and closed-minded. This isn’t taking a “pro-Catholic” stance (I’m not religious), it’s just common sense.

A few other posts in this thread have brought up the abuse scandals and all the other negative things associated with the Catholic Church. I agree, as we probably all do, that all of those things are pretty shitty and hopefully those scumbags get what they deserve. No argument there.

However, lumping all of those instances in to the recent St. James concert incident is pretty ridiculous. That’s the same thing as saying that because some radical Muslims have been convicted of terrorist attacks around the world, whatever mosques Muslims consider sacred in the U.S. shouldn’t be respected because some hipsters think their religion is a crock of shit.

If you don’t see the connection between these two statements, as well as why they’re both equally stupid, then there’s a chance that you’ve told someone at some point in the last 6 months that Wavves is an awesome band.

As far as some of the Catholic groups posting on here, don’t overdo it. It’s one thing to stick up for what you believe in, but it’s another thing to compare what happened here to a crime committed by the Nazis. C’mon. That’s just as ignorant as the people who dismiss the whole issue by, well, insulting Catholicism. Comments like that (and others) just kind of feed the fire. I mean, is there really any reason for Catholic groups to start talking shit about homosexuals in a Brooklyn Vegan thread about the desecration of a Catholic church? We get it, part of the Catholic M.O. is that homosexuality is wrong, but why are you preaching that here? Stay focused.

The only real issue here should be Less Artists More Condos’ booking the show at a Catholic Church under (apparently) false pretenses in a spot many Catholics worldwide would consider to be sacred. If this clown really did con his way into booking the show, he should be held liable civilly and/or charged criminally (depending on what happened). As a law student, I can pretty much guarantee that arguments like “the catholic church is a fucking joke” and “some hipster told me that the catholic church is the biggest terror organization in the history of humankind” won’t make it too far at all. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Lastly, I’d like to personally thank LAMC for doing its part to fuck over the indie/DIY scene in NYC. As one poster put it “Was it really worth it”? As if the choice of venue wasn’t controversial enough, did you really have to punish those who turned out by making them listen to Total Slacker? Thanks, douchebag, you are quite the innovator.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:42 PM

Wait...Pantera played in a church? What's going on here?

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:45 PM

"I like turtles!"

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:51 PM

7:42 for president in 2012

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:55 PM

7:42 summed it up entirely. Thread over.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:56 PM

7:18. I saw absolutely nothing in that video that was either factual or could be construed as a logical argument against the Church. Sorry. You lose.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 7:57 PM

I'm staying out of the pissing match, but I am a former atheist and I don't have the space or time to tell you about it, but here is a link that pretty much sums it up:

Diary of a Former Atheist:
http://www.conversiondiary.com/2006/12/on-having-proof.html

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:05 PM

I love Rick Astley! If he played that church, there would probably be no controversy.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:06 PM

wow this is "interesting" aside from what is happening, and all of the shitty comments about religion and such, this was a dumb move by panero and LAMC. there is a pretty large line between fun and cool and horrible and stupid, and he missed it.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:10 PM

i love that people are jumping the gun and saying that LAMC have "fucked over" the DIY scene. just how people jumped the gun saying that the show was never going to take place in first place cause it was near a police station. fuck all of you morons. this little incident will change NOTHING other than the fact that st. james church will not be a venue for any shows in the future. and it will stay broke.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:11 PM

The reason that I like shows in church so much, uh, aside from the fact that it's amazing is, um, I feel like it kind of was overlooked when it actually happened and now it's like this absolute classic show. But, uh, when it was actually reviewed, when it happened, it really didn't do very...I mean it did well, but it didn't do extremely well. Rolling Stone at the time gave it like..I think 2 out of 5 stars or something like that. And then when they re-released the show on Brooklynvegan.com they said it was 5 out of 5 stars, when they did the next review. But it was just a very important show in my formidable years and, um, it's a classic show.

Posted by Nathan | January 27, 2010 8:12 PM

We just sent St. James parish a large check in order to make up for any lost revenue, and to fight any legal/civil battles. This is not over by a long shot. It is just beginning.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:14 PM

that concert was awful! seriously, the beets and total slacker were lame beyond belief. the atmosphere was weird too. not a good idea and a terrible show

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:15 PM

This event was probably the most attendance St. James has seen in years.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:15 PM

I'm suspicious of anyone who thinks that they are going to have an "after-life". If heaven is so fucking great... why don't you just go there now? Why bother with crappy old earth?

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:21 PM

Then David and all the house of Israel played music before the Lord on all kinds of instruments of fir wood, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on sistrums, and on cymbals. - II Samuel 6:5

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:22 PM

I'm going to hypocritically claim to stay out of the pissing match while doing no such thing, but I am a former believer and I don't have the space or time to tell you about it, but here is a link that pretty much sums it up:

Diary of a Former Preacher:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Became-Atheist-Preacher-Christianity/dp/1591025923

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:28 PM

8:21, that is the right question. The answer is we were created to love God, but we are not forced to do so. Forced love is not love. Therefore, we are given a choice. There is no greater love than love which is freely and totally given. We live this life, in a broken world of our own doing, in order to come to know God and to love. I always smile when I hear atheists talk of how they do not believe in anything, except love. I am the same way, for I know that God is love, and therefore I believe in God. Not the "human" version boogyman that every makes God out to be. That could not be further from the truth. God simply is being itself...love itself. To love is to know God, even if you tell yourself otherwise.

I recommend this short paragraph on the subject to sum this up:
http://catholicexchange.com/2008/11/25/113882/

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:28 PM

I love atheists, because the believe so hard in trying not to believe. Its all very sad and humorous to watch them be so frustrated over something so simple and so wonderful. Oh well, there are no such things as atheists on deathbeds or foxholes. Everyone, for all of time, comes around in the end. Its pretty hard not to when standing in front of Him.

But alas, even then its your choice. But only a complete moron would choose darkness and loneliness instead of infinite love.

Anyhoo, God bless the atheists with a conversion of faith and love in God. Turn their hearts and hard heads to You, and welcome them into your presence.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:32 PM

Yes...God is love...except, you know, when he kills all those people in the Bible.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:40 PM

"Oh well, there are no such things as atheists on deathbeds or foxholes"
"only a complete moron would choose darkness and loneliness instead of infinite love"

So are you saying that religion is not necessarily "real", but just something that must be believed in order to deal with death?
Well, that doesn't really have anything to do with "love". that's just trying to psych yourself into not being scared to die. Sounds pretty pussy to me...

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:44 PM

Pope JP the 2 was really into Cymbals Eat Guitars. He'd approve of this shindig.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:44 PM

Religion is just another method for powerful people to get what they want. You "believers" are just their tools.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:46 PM

Everyone chill the eff out and give each other some Christian side-hugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Oj0-splZw

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:47 PM

Atheism...the opiate of the masses.

Truth!

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:56 PM

STRYPER RULEZ!!!!

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 8:57 PM

you Muslims need to shut the fuck up already.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 9:05 PM

Opium rules.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 9:50 PM

I shot smack in the confessional while Real Estate was playing. It was epic.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 10:16 PM

if all catholics here don't like total slacker they oughta go back to england

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 10:48 PM

Rev. Quincy saw this whole thing coming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpYd7bOn52M

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 11:04 PM

Atheism can't be the opiate of the masses if they only make up about 10% of the US population

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 11:31 PM

Every time the Meh guy posts, an angel gets its wings.

Posted by Anonymous | January 27, 2010 11:39 PM

Every time a religious nut posts something in this thread, the terrorists win.

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 12:03 AM

I hate the internet.

Posted by Father Toneletto | January 28, 2010 12:54 AM

Ariel is just the scapegoat for a perhaps bad, perhaps desperate, and perhaps very much well intended choice made by the proprietors of the St. James church in order to save it from closing. Be assured that they were paid very well for use of their space (which in turn supports the church and the local community), were well aware that the plan was to fill the church to capacity (600), and that alcohol was to be served. The show was over before 1, and Ariel and his crew stayed until the early hours of the morning cleaning the church and bleaching the floors. The place was spotless afterwards. There is no problem here, it’s a business transaction, plain and simple, that the proprietors not only agreed to, but sought out themselves. Now they're facing mounting pressure (with an angry mob suggesting the bishop step down from his position) from the Catholic community and Ariel is the fall guy. It's all his fault, right.

It wasn’t in bad taste to host a show here. It wasn't in the interest of self-promotion. It was driven by the desire to provide kids with a different DIY show experience, in an interesting space not previously made available. Ariel has booked shows under the high line, in a boat that sailed through the NY harbor, and in the basement of Damon Dash's offices in Tribeca - where Mos Def freestyled over Javelin to a crowd of 100 people. Give him a break. He's trying to set up cool shows for the community and you all just turn your back on him at the slightest indication of a controversy.

Ariel was in the process of meeting with the local community board, and most of the neighborhood was EXCITED to have him host shows at the church, because if he did not, the church was likely going to close it’s doors forever. And bulldozed to the ground. Probably for some shitty new glass condos. Why aren’t you guys getting angry over the real issues here? If there was this kind of anger and protest against regional landmarks vanishing from the New York landscape due to unrealistic rents with no protection from the city, then maybe we’d get MORE ARTISTS AND LESS CONDOS.

And more importantly, the church never would have needed the cash to begin with.

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 2:45 AM

Churches are dumb.

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 6:48 AM

Insight on the entire problem in a short article:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jan/10012801.html

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 12:43 PM

"because if he did not, the church was likely going to close it’s doors forever. And bulldozed to the ground"

Isn't this building a protected landmark?

Posted by Aaron | January 28, 2010 1:10 PM

@7:42 pm and @2:45 am seem to have clear level headed responses and I should take their word of caution against fanning the flames of hatred...but I won't.

Because the Catholics are cunts. Seriously, fucking cunts. You're sad, joyless people who dedicate your lives not to a higher power, but to make others as sad and joyless as you. Fuck off.

Good luck with the rest of your pathetic existence. I'm going to continue seeing great music, doing wonderful drugs and fucking beautiful women while you live your shitty little lives hoping for something that'll never come.

The best part is, in a few years time you all will be rotting away under the ground not even with a conscious thought to know that this whole thing called life ever happened...Just like me.

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 3:32 PM

Insight on why this event was offensive to catholics:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/502.html

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 5:01 PM

so...............wheres the next show?

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 7:04 PM

HAunting the Chapel

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 7:11 PM

I find it very interesting that many of the intolerant and/or ignoramus comments have been posted anonymously - real brave!

As some have noted, a Church is considered a sacred space for Catholics and so to have a band / choir / etc. perform in the sanctuary - especially with a beer can on the altar - is considered sacrilegious. You don’t agree, fine - but in most civilized cultures it is a sign of maturity to respect a religion’s sacred spaces. Of course, the pastor should have emptied the tabernacle and since he didn’t it shows how clueless he is!

Now none of us know how the “concert” was presented to St. James and whether or not the organizers lied about what was going to happen and so it’s pointless to start making unfounded accusations. I have friends that are pursuing this through the legal system and so I leave it in their hands to sort out the facts.

What I find astounding, however, is that no one seemed to care that Julianna Barwick was left without a venue - what happened to solidarity? Is it because she’s a woman that no one appeared to give a damn? Well, thankfully, another space has been found for her.

In closing, had this situation been handled differently perhaps this could have remained a new venue for new music - as it stands now, you can forget about that; and that’s a shame!!!

Posted by Raul | January 28, 2010 9:28 PM

Get a job. You have too much time on your hands.

Posted by Anonymous | January 28, 2010 10:51 PM

If the law student continues to read this post can he/she tell me what the church could do. LAMC is clearly not a legal entity, LLC or inc. I know ariel has no personal assets. Furthermore, I know that no documents or contracts were signed. Ariel was given permission to use the church so what was the crime here exactly?

Posted by Anonymous | January 29, 2010 12:54 AM

@12:45: Because I’m not sure about what happened during the negotiations, as well as anything else that may be legally relevant, I can’t really point out what the exact civil claim/claims could or would be. Based on pure speculation, there may be some civil issues (breach of contract, fraudulent misrepresentation [one party makes a representation with the intent to deceive and knowing that it is false], etc.) and possibly some criminal ones (fraud, generally). Again, I’m not basing that off anything other than what I’ve read on this site, and I have no idea what actually happened, so take it all with a grain of salt.

I can try and clarify a few things that you asked about, however, to hopefully give you a better idea of what may be going on.
The fact that no documents or contracts were signed isn’t necessarily of legal significance; contracts can be “implied” and can also come about from “oral agreements”; the breach of either has the same legal effect of breaching a written agreement. Therefore, if a party is found to be in breach of an oral agreement, damages can be awarded in the same manner as if there was a physical document involved.

If Ariel operates LAMC alone, absent incorporation or filing as another type of entity (as I think you are suggesting), he would probably be viewed legally as operating a sole proprietorship, where there is virtually no distinction (in terms of civil liability, tax liability, etc.) between the individual and the business. Basically, if LAMC screws up, Ariel’s on the hook for anything and everything. Although Ariel may have “no personal assets”, that in and of itself is not a valid defense to any potential claims. In other words, even if this is true, that fact wouldn’t prevent a civil lawsuit from being filed. There is the legal status of being “judgment proof” (meaning basically that you have no viable assets for a court to seize), but this is determined after the judgment is issued, and not before. However, this does not occur often (just my personal opinion), as courts will often seek future wage garnishment instead. Obviously, there are situations where wage garnishment wouldn’t apply (if the person is retired, etc.), but I still feel that wage garnishment is a typical alternative response to a claim of someone being “judgment proof”.

Hopefully that cleared things up a bit.

Posted by Anonymous | January 29, 2010 10:25 AM


I meant @ 12:54, not 12:45 in the post right above this.

Posted by Anonymous | January 29, 2010 10:27 AM

Thanks 10:25, your informed speculation is welcome.

Posted by Anonymous | January 29, 2010 1:29 PM

Wonderful reply 10:25!

1:29pm, if you look at this site (see below) it appears as if fraud was indeed involved - which is regrettable.

http://www.catholicvoteaction.org/americanpapist/index.php?p=804#more-804

Posted by Raul | January 29, 2010 1:42 PM

1. Raul: "I find it very interesting that many of the intolerant and/or ignoramus comments have been posted anonymously - real brave!"

Well I wouldn't want to put my name there considering all the information about LAMC including emails and actual addresses have been published either asking people to attack LAMC or at the least being stupid enough to not realize the danger of doing such a thing. This is malicious, but not surprising based on where its coming from.

2. What does a Pro-Life Law Center have to do with this? They were "were asked to intervene"? By whom? Funny how nowhere in there does the actual St. James church say anything. They're working on behalf of the church and can't even get a comment? Not only that but in the statement they refer to LAMC as "monsters?" This is immature and ignorant, but not surprising based on where its coming from.

Posted by Anonymous | January 29, 2010 2:49 PM

Dear @2:49pm,

Regarding point 1: Any post asking or implying that LAMC should be attacked is clearly a total asshole post and it is included in what I am calling “an ignoramus post.”

Regarding point 2: perhaps you did not see it, but if you click on the .pdf links under the phrase "case documents" at the bottom of the gray box, you will see that the letter begins as follows: “At the request of Fr. Walter Tonelotto, pastor of St. James Church in New York City…” I work with lawyers every day – and even if I didn’t there are enough movies, TV shows, etc. that portray how lawyers advise their clients – and I can tell you that it’s not like the back and forth we are having in this blog. In fact, if Ariel hires a lawyer the first thing he will be told is “don’t speak, let me do the speaking.” So let’s stick with reality and not start making statements like: “not surprising based on where it’s coming from.”

I didn’t cite the link because I thought the entry is an example of a mature post, I cited it because it appears as if LAMC deceived the pastor – or at least that’s what is being alleged. If that is indeed true then there is a possible civil case, as was already noted above.

In closing, what occurred clearly highlights that anyone that organizes events should be certain that all negotiations are verified in writing so that the organizers cover their ass and avoid a “he said/she said” situation. As one of the earlier posts on this blog stated this was not done and this was foolish.

Raul

Posted by Raul | January 29, 2010 4:24 PM

I am saddened that this thread appears to be dying off. It had such promise.

Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2010 1:08 AM

Yeah

Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2010 7:53 AM

Ariel Panero is a rapist

Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2010 12:00 PM

The Catholic Church is a rapist.

Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2010 9:08 PM

No one should have any sympathy for this priest! It was Fr. Walter’s responsibility – no one else’s – to get clear information BEFORE the event took place. He is well known for passing on responsibility to some one else, rather than take the blame himself. All he is interested in is money and that is what motivated his decision to allow for such a hideous travesty to take place in church. Is anyone aware of his latest antic? He is forcing the sisters who teach in St. Joseph’s School and who have ministered to the people there for over 85 years to leave at the end of this school year. He didn’t even have the guts to speak directly with the sister who is principal who has given totally of herself to the students and parents for the last 9 years….what a coward!! With the consequences of such a stupid and cruel action, he is going to need a whole lot more than a Rosary and Holy Hour in reparation. This man is a complete idiot and, unfortunately, only another instance of someone who presents himself as a priest, but is the farthest thing from it.


Posted by Anonymous | April 12, 2010 6:13 PM

He always passed his obligation to others, just like what he had done before.

Posted by pa-21 | November 24, 2010 10:51 PM

Awww come on. I bet if it was sanctus real or mercy me or something they would have been chill.

Posted by sites like zoosk | January 10, 2011 11:10 AM

Hmm The Catholic Church is a rapist.

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Amazing is an enormous understatement. One of the best electronic shows I've ever been to and I've seen well over a thousand concerts. I had no idea Vladislav Delay was as good a drummer & percussionist as he is- fabulous and he kept everything swinging with a very unique style of playing. If you missed this you missed out big time...
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Posted by يوتيوب | March 1, 2011 2:04 PM

I bet if it was sanctus real or mercy me or something they would have been chill.

Posted by Game | June 25, 2011 8:57 PM

Bit disrespectful what went on but it was always going to happen. Might have been better if it took place somewhere else...

Posted by Web Design Bath | June 26, 2011 3:04 PM

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Posted by music | July 13, 2011 3:55 AM

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Posted by Game | August 27, 2011 8:04 PM

He always passed his obligation to others, just like what he had done before.

Posted by หี | October 27, 2011 1:18 AM

This is very upsetting, it should of took place in a different location.

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