Posted in music | venues on March 8, 2011

Aces and Eights

"Todd Patrick, a.k.a. Todd P, tells us more about the venue he's planning to bring to the Mo Pitkins space along with the man who opened and closed Mo Pitkins, Phil Hartman of Two Boots; architect Mike House; and Javan Damadian, the lease holder of the space back when it was Aces & Eights, who we're told didn't have a management role in the bar. Patrick says the team is currently forming a curatorial board for the second-floor performance venue and is speaking to two restaurateurs about a menu of Pacific-coast-style Mexican food (think lemon and lime cured fish, tostadas, and tacos in the style of Jalisco or Sinaloa). As for the performances, Patrick says the venue "will not be an indie-rock club, dance club, or punk-rock club -- we'll be something more in the lines of Tonic," meaning "avant-experimental music" in the vein of the original Knitting Factory over on Houston Street.

"The hope is to bring a home back to Manhattan for esoteric free jazz performance," Patrick tells us. "We want to be about what the East Village came out of -- this downtown experimentalism and this reverence of the artistic." He mentions the Stone, John Zorn's nearby nonprofit venue that operates without a liquor license, and says the music here will be "maybe going somewhat closer to indie rock, or to what's called the WFMU record collector community" (think Thurston Moore's instrumental stuff). This isn't the club he's long talked about doing: "I can do indie-rock shows all over the place -- I don't need to do that here." Instead, he says, he and his partners are hoping to "right the wrongs" of the previous tenant ("we're not happy with what happened with the property after Phil left -- a lot of us don't care for what Aces & Eights was") and bring back some of the "downtown" music scene that took a hit when Tonic closed four years ago: "Downtown really lost something that had been essentially there since the sixties if not before -- the edgy, gritty, downtown-oriented intellectual experimental community. It needed to return to the city."" [Grub Street]

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Tags: Todd P

Comments (79)

commentary should be interesting...

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:00 AM

commentary should be interesting...

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:02 AM

Damn, now I am craving a Two Boots Newman slice.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:06 AM

Fuck the haters. Todd P has one of the biggest dicks around here and him opening this new niche venue is his way of swinging that man meat around while bruising it down your girlfriend's throat.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:10 AM

Todd P = Hummus Baron

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:12 AM

You know you'll go

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:17 AM

He needs to shut up. No one listens to this shit music.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:23 AM

businessman

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:25 AM

"Fuck the haters. Todd P has one of the biggest dicks around here and him opening this new niche venue is his way of swinging that man meat around while bruising it down your girlfriend's throat."

-says his lapdog

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:26 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man. This feels like the career move that MC Hammer pulled when he decided to go the gospel route.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:27 AM

Try "SAYS A FAN OF ACTUAL GOOD MUSIC," 10:26.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:28 AM

The hope is to bring a home back to Manhattan for esoteric free jazz performance...We want to be about what the East Village came out of..."

everyone wants to bring back the past. why not do something NEW??? what a concept huh?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:28 AM

Who's MC Hammer?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:30 AM

will the jacuzzi boys play there?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:31 AM

Todd P is the Urban Outfitters of clubs.

If you cut through Todd P's bullshit ramblings, he says two things. (1) It won't be an indie rock club. (2) It will be more like an indie rock club version of a place that is actually experimental (i.e. John Zorn's club).


Gee...just what we needed. A watered down version of a place that is actually cool. A place that parents will feel safe dropping off their teenagers.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:33 AM

Actually think this is a good thing. In a city which is inundated with skinny jeans,beards,checkered shirt wearing so called indie rockers...why not a venue in manhattan that will bring something different...I say bring it on!

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:35 AM

If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC so stfu and keep pretending like you don't own Sung Tongs on vinyl.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:37 AM

Phil Hartman was hilarious. RIP.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:44 AM

"If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC "

There is a scene? Who knew? are you talking about the ridiculous Todd P shows?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:53 AM

"If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC ""If it weren't for Todd P, there'd be no scene in a 100 mile radius of NYC "

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:55 AM

No, I'm talking about how every young kid or young band moves to NYC to get their music heard and find an audience or forms in the area, and explodes with the help of Todd P. Todd P reinvigorated the music scene in NYC that was DYING up until a little over a decade ago. I just hate reading all this negativity spewed at a guy who put Brooklyn back on the map after all he's done for the area. People like 10:53, 10:28, your pretentious criticism is a slap to the face of anyone who loves music here in NYC. If you have a better idea to promote music that will guarantee success, by all means go for it. Until then, you're just a flaccid jackoff behind a computer screen.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 10:58 AM

Right on 10:33

I mean, by him saying this is experimental and avant-garde, he's implying that the stuff he's done thus far is not that (ie - watered-down indie muzak).

Why not just focus on putting on the best damn shows in NYC? You think the early punk/no-wave/downtown scene was caught up in consciously trying to do something that sounded a certain way? No, they just did it.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:05 AM

I know Todd and he does not like this kind of music at all. What a dumb idea.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:11 AM

this city needs a new Tonic. that place's departure was a real blow to the musical legacy of New York.

the stone and issue project room are great, but when was the last time you wanted to go to something there?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:13 AM

> "Todd P reinvigorated the music scene in NYC that was DYING up until a little over a decade ago."

Holy cow, you bought that propaganda hook line and sinker. Todd P didn't even move here until '01 and the "scene" was arguably "back" by then. And if you think discovering Dan Deacon is the rebirth of rock and roll, well I just don't know what to tell you. Todd P is a decent guy who puts on cool all ages shows for the kids. But to look at him as the savior of NY rock and roll is just silly.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:14 AM

Good Luck Todd Poopies.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:21 AM

Todd Patrick has never claimed to be the savior of anything, just a guy trying to put on concerts.

this new space sounds pretty in line with that, just filling a need and making a good place. Tonic was cool, it would be good to have another place like that place was.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:27 AM

11:14am, you know nothing about NYC. You probably moved to the City in the past 5 years or something. I've been here since the mid-90s and while there was a revival of sorts in the early 2000s, Todd P was the only person to structuralize it and help its seeds grow. The talent has always been here in NYC but Todd P is the man who sewed its seeds and reaped the fruit in a harvest of creativity and energy.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:28 AM

i don't know how anyone can criticize a new venue. the more the merrier.

and anyone with a memory with a capacity of more than 3 years will remember when todd used to book a wider variety of music. perhaps this will return.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:31 AM

11:28 if you really believe that shit that's pretty amazing.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:32 AM

screeeee eee zorrrk zork waaaaaa uhhh waaaa blipp blippp scrreee toot toot

Posted by john zorn | March 8, 2011 11:36 AM

Quit lying. Name 5 indie free jazz experimental NY acts that will fill the club. Oh yeah they're aren't.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:36 AM

i'll sew your seeds

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:37 AM

LCD Soundsystem are the new Talking Heads.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:41 AM

Fuck everyone commenting here. Get a life. There will never be another Tonic, and I'm not holding my breath that this will come close, but there is absolutely a need for this type of place. If it strives to be what it says. I'm not into calling people "haters", but what the fuck is your people's problem with someone - anyone - trying to opening a venue like this?? Stop spewing your ignorant shit on the internet.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:52 AM

hipsters to beatniks!

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:01 PM

Will they be serving brunch at this venue?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:02 PM

child labor laws

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:14 PM

Ezra Koenig called. He wants his hair back.
The guy from We Are Scientists called. He said to stop pretending you're him and trying to bang his wife from Au Revoir Simone.
BrooklynVegan comment board called. They want their boyish-faced hipster look back.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:16 PM

11:36 - there are plenty of "weird" bands who fill clubs on a regular basis in new york. you should get out more.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:45 PM

8=======D

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:46 PM

Nothing wrong with venues or renewal of neighborhoods or even pretentious music scenes. There IS something wrong with the terrible eyeglasses, the whiskered mustaches, and the lederhosen. THAT's what's wrong with youth these days. Did you see those pictures from the cruise? These air headed ninnies ruined New York youth culture and the vibe of the music scenes.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:46 PM

8=======D

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:47 PM

mexican seafood sounds delicious

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 12:57 PM

12:47, are you 7.5"?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 1:00 PM

I'll settle for a ban on the top 90% grossing bowery-core acts

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 1:14 PM

"I hate bands that play at Bowery Ballroom. Grrrrr" Cool.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 1:22 PM

I think all of these comments are true. Yes, Todd did reinvigorate the nyc music scene, and he really does deserve credit. However, his reputation as a total asshole is in my opinion well-deserved. And, NYC does need another Tonic. And, it probably will be a watered-down version of the Stone, but....I don't see why there should be a problem with having more venues for experimental music.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 1:27 PM

a home for more interesting serious music that isn't stuffy sounds good

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 1:30 PM

todd p is god

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 1:32 PM

Some things to think about:

Are they going to make this place all-ages? In this 2011 version of the East Village, the Ninth Precinct will never stand for that. They'll be raided before the first Sinaloa-style taco comes off the grill.

If it's 21+, isn't that against Todd P's avowed "all-ages-or-nothing" principles? After all, he refuses to promote shows at 21+ venues like Glasslands.

Also, if he's a part owner, his name legally has to be on the liquor license. If he gets a ticket from the cops for selling alcohol at an illegal show in Williamsburg, the city can try to take the license away.

Posted by norman mailer | March 8, 2011 1:38 PM

i don't know how anyone can criticize a new venue.

Posted by Mutui Prima Casa | March 8, 2011 1:48 PM

my only question is: can he make his site and/or emails look like they're not from 1995?

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:07 PM

"while there was a revival of sorts in the early 2000s, Todd P was the only person to structuralize it and help its seeds grow"

I used to see shows mainly at North six in the early 2000's. I saw a couple Todd P shows, but rarely.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:15 PM

yea, almost all the bands that play Bowery blow

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:26 PM

if you want to see what is going on with really underground "avant-experimental" music check out 1012willoughby.com

no brunch, no plan, just music and love for it. see u ther

Posted by Xander | March 8, 2011 2:37 PM

Todd Patrick never quits. Nobody's perfect. Try doing this shit for longer than a year in this city, especially without a permanent venue. Things change and grow. Fuck all you haters. God forbid you praise someone's work and say something positive.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:37 PM

Todd gets plenty of positive praise from the constant press that he gets. What more do you want? He is (falsely) credited with being the savior of New York. It's a bit ridiculous actually. Press whore...

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:40 PM

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:44 PM

The problem is here....

the music here will be "maybe going somewhat closer to indie rock, or to what's called the WFMU record collector community" (think Thurston Moore's instrumental stuff).

Sticking to "indie rock" movement? Branch out and have some rap shows, experimental shows, doom metal shows, and etc.

Best DYI promoter in the east coast hands down is Sean Agnew (R5 Productions in Philly). He knows what he's doing and he books all sorts of shows. This "new" venue will close within a year....guarantee.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 2:54 PM

TODD:

PHIL WILL SUCK YOUR SOUL DRY. STOCK UP ON GARLIC AND CRUCIFIXES.

AND SEARCH THE NEW YORK ECOURTS ONLINE FOR SOME AMAZING READING ABOUT VARIOUS LAWSUITS AGAINST PHIL.

- SURVIVOR / VETERAN / STILL IN REHAB

Posted by Phil Survivor | March 8, 2011 3:06 PM

Knitting Factory is all ages and they have alcohol

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 3:10 PM

I remember a good music scene in downtown Manhattan in the mid-late 90s (Coney Island High, then LES: Luna, Mercury Lounge) then all of a sudden the Strokes hit and that's when people came sniffing around. Todd P was not even in NY yet. Todd P puts on decent all ages shows. I fail to see how 100 teenagers puking up Four Loko at Market Hotel watching whatever blog flavor of the month is not exactly CBGB's in the mid-late 70s

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 3:38 PM

This place would be much more successful if they sold hummus instead of mexican fish tacos.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 4:03 PM

3:38 has hit the nail on the head. Similar to the way that Todd glommed onto the scene back in 2003/2004 he is trying to do so now with experimental music. The Stone, Roulette, Issue Project Room, the Kitchen and countless others (probably over 20 in the EV alone) venues have continually supported experimental music so I’m not so sure what he thinks he’s resurrecting. It is an insult to people like John Zorn, Jim Staley, Patricia Parker, Zach Layton and others who work tirelessly to put on cutting edge music. This guy is a major asshole and believe me, ANYTHING associated with Phil Hartman will be a drag and will not last.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 4:16 PM

may i also remind everyone that tonic put on very few experimental shows in the last 2-3 years that they were open. they switched to almost completely rock programming from 2004-2007.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 4:24 PM

Any new venue that is not in Brooklyn is OK with me.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 4:32 PM

Any new venue that is not in Manhattan is OK with me.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 5:38 PM

Opening avant-experimental-pseudobabble art spaces does nothing to aid the music scene. Especially in the East Village and LES. These neighborhoods have been gentrified by the very people who will be attending these shows.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 7:06 PM

@ 7:06

that is one of the dumbest things that i have ever read.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 7:31 PM

"Todd P is the Urban Outfitters of clubs.

If you cut through Todd P's bullshit ramblings, he says two things. (1) It won't be an indie rock club. (2) It will be more like an indie rock club version of a place that is actually experimental (i.e. John Zorn's club).


Gee...just what we needed. A watered down version of a place that is actually cool. A place that parents will feel safe dropping off their teenagers."

Wait--John Zorn is "actually cool?"

Shit, I need to listen to NPR more often. Thanks, dad.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 9:33 PM

Todd P.ussy ensures that all proceeds from stolen coats will go to Mexican drug cartels.

The buses will be here soon. Honest.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 9:36 PM

"No, I'm talking about how every young kid or young band moves to NYC to get their music heard and find an audience or forms in the area, and explodes with the help of Todd P."

I like Todd and appreciate what he does, but this is ridiculously naive. I can't remember the last time Todd booked a band that didn't already have substantial PR/hype/a label.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 9:40 PM

The hummus shall run deep.

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:22 PM

You're all lame with your hummus remarks. This post called for guacomole trolling. 4chan kids > BV commenters

Posted by Anonymous | March 8, 2011 11:54 PM

The Stone is uncool even by academic music standards

Posted by Anonymous | March 9, 2011 12:24 AM

It's been kind of awesome to read all the bv lameoids struggling to shit on this - they don't understand what it is!

Posted by Anonymous | March 9, 2011 12:25 AM

Lameoids? Is this 1977?

Posted by Anonymous | March 9, 2011 5:31 PM

"may i also remind everyone that tonic put on very few experimental shows in the last 2-3 years that they were open. they switched to almost completely rock programming from 2004-2007."

This is just completely false. They were doing experimental stuff up to the end. In fact the last show I saw at Tonic was Zeena Parkins, Jamie Saft, and Bobby Previte, and its was just one long freeform jazz thing and it was amazing.

Posted by Anonymous | March 9, 2011 5:39 PM

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