Posted in music on October 5, 2011

thanks to Bao Nguyen for this pic in real time...
Jeff Mangum

So Radiohead didn't happen, but, while Portishead was playing at Hammerstein Ballroom Tuesday night (10/4), Jeff Mangum made a surprise live appearance down at Wall Street in support of the Occupy Wall Street protestors! If you weren't there, maybe you caught the live stream? If not, watch it now below...

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Comments (379)

Hummus

Posted by Jeff | October 5, 2011 12:12 AM

Jeff Magnum...protesters can't even spell...time to protest education system

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:14 AM

Pretty badass. Cool to see how much both he and the protesters enjoyed the experience. Nice one.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:27 AM

awesome! mad respect

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:30 AM

"God is a place where some holy spectacle lies."

Indeed!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:30 AM

I wonder what not corporate equipment and Internet were used for that broadcast

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:32 AM

"Stereogum and Pitchfork live-tweeting a goose-throated recluse playing folk songs to hippies like it's the JFK assassination" - Christopher Weingarten

So true.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:33 AM

"Stereogum and Pitchfork live-tweeting a goose-throated recluse playing folk songs to hippies like it's the JFK assassination"

>> last time I checked Pitchfork and Stereogum were indie music blogs..
how dare they report on a surprise performance from one of indie rock's most popular performers...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:36 AM

Who the fuck is Jeff Mangum?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:38 AM

awesome

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:38 AM

damn, we couldn't get some kind of warning that this was gonna happen?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:39 AM

Occupy deeez nutz!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:41 AM

Fuck Christopher Weingarten. And I don't even like Jeff Mangum.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:46 AM

i heard a protestor admitting they use the mcdonalds bathroom and verizon to transmit the live feed on npr this morning but its pretty much impossible to avoid corporations in this world we live, right mayer hawthorne?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:49 AM

Yeah screw Weingarten. I don't even think he likes Animal Collective.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:52 AM

God Bless Jeff Mangum. Not even angry I missed this.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:52 AM

There is no god.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:53 AM

what time did this happen? I just left work near Wall St. at 12:15am, goddammit

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:56 AM

when did Colin Meloy become a recluse?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:58 AM

Is there any reason why I should know who Christopher Weingarten is or care about what he says?

There isn't? Oh, okay.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:01 AM

god damn. mangum is the man. so epic.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:03 AM

fucking awesome!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:09 AM

I missed this because i was too busy occupying frohawk's taint :(

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:16 AM

@1:01 I think you know who he is.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:41 AM

I don't think I've ever seen footage of Mangum so joyful before

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:43 AM

Yeah, I'm not a huge Mangum fan either but this is fantastic. Way to go.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:52 AM

Is Frohawk protesting?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:57 AM

Wouldn't Phish be a little more apropos for this "occupancy".

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:58 AM

Yeah, protesting, playing a guitar and singing...that'll show those mean old corporations.

Get real. All these idiots are being laughed. Laughed at by everyone but the police. They don't find it funny that it's part of their job detail to stand within feet of these people. Hence the beatdowns and arrests.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:11 AM

let me know when this hack decides to make another album. Until then I could give a fuck

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:24 AM

"This rules. So great to see this movement growing. It's about time". -tweeted by Ryanpitchfork shortly after Mango played.

Congratulations to occupywallst on there intro into the indie scene. You have now grown into a relevant movement. Any word on if Die Antwoord is gonna play?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:50 AM

snide comment

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:02 AM

The Sunday jeff Mangum ATP ticket holders were sent emails in advance about this performance. Thanks ATP and tough luck Friday Ticket holders

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 6:08 AM

pretty badass.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 7:35 AM

Of course the video is titled 'Jeff Magnum'

for shame.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 7:38 AM

Jeff Mangum is better than this. Occupy Wall Street is still a joke. I am not sold.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 7:39 AM

Glad there was no advanced notice about this ala Fauxdiohead. Makes it seem much more pure on Mangum's part - like he just took at taxi over randomly at 10:30 at went acoustic on their hippie asses.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 7:41 AM

moldy hummus.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 7:53 AM

Can someone explain what this organization really hopes to achieve? Because as far as I can tell, they're really just trying to achieve wasted tax dollars on security....

They're contributing to misappropriation of money....

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:00 AM

@8:00 they just achieved a free jeff mangum concert in what is essentially their backyard. guarantee that's more than you've ever achieved.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:06 AM

Cool that he played a Minutemen song!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:19 AM

No interest in either this Jeff person or the anarchist trust fund twats down there.

How about doing this for us all ... stay the fuck off the bridge while I'm trying to get home, mkay? I pay taxes not to support your smelly ass but to allow me egress across the river.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:27 AM

OWS is not just a bunch of idealistic hippies- it's people of all stripes, colors and persuasions from mothers w babies to ironworkers to old punks/ anarchists like myself.

It's about calling out dysfunctional gov, exposing corporate corruption, and fighting
economic oppression.

WAKE UP. get your head out of the sand, do some research on your own, and come out and protest today.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:31 AM

allow me egress across the river.

who says "egress" ? honestly...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:42 AM

Having Jeff Magnum play is like having the lead singer of the New Radicals play right? Their last album was probably 1998 also.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:51 AM

You can always count on Mangum...to wear a hideous sweater

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:54 AM

this is excellent. good weather this weekend, i'll be there. y'all who are pretending to be confused what this is about should come down and take a look for yourself. the folks in the ivory towers down there are stealing everything. stop carrying their water and start calling them out.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:54 AM

Even the band of Chris Barrons fame had albums in the 2000 where NMH hasn't...come Jeff don't just do a cash grab!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:56 AM

Jeff Don't give up, you got the music in you! One dance left, The World is going to pull through!You've got a reason to live! Can't foget you only get what you give!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:01 AM

*;42 I didn't say the original egress comment but I use that all time as I work with easements....hummm

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:05 AM

^Whoops..I meant 8:42...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:07 AM

8:27 I hope every bridge is blocked for you every day of your life.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:23 AM

^HA that would take a toll on that dude!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:26 AM

@926 i think that would take a toll away from that dude. zing!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:37 AM

I don't get this guy..he doesn't want his pictures taken at shows then he does a high profile public show like this!?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:45 AM

Surprising for someone who is so anti-camera/video

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:47 AM

8:31 - funny, with one word substitution I agree with you:

"The Tea Party is not just a bunch of idealistic hippies- it's people of all stripes, colors and persuasions from mothers w babies to ironworkers to old punks/ anarchists like myself.

It's about calling out dysfunctional gov, exposing corporate corruption, and fighting
economic oppression.

WAKE UP. get your head out of the sand, do some research on your own, and come out and protest today."

Now, do YOU see any similarities?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:50 AM

Maybe they should try Occupying a job.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:57 AM

this made me blow a load in my mangum condom.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:58 AM

"t's about calling out dysfunctional gov, exposing corporate corruption, and fighting
economic oppression."

Yeah, it's for the children. Give me a break. It's been stated clearly that they have no goals for their protest, and their actions prove them to be reckless. No, this is about their own entitlement, and I do not support that.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:58 AM

EVERLAST IS PLAYING WEBSTER HALL. S PIN DO CTORS ARE OUT, EVERLAST IS IN!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:59 AM

Fuckin a' 9:58. Fuckin' a.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:00 AM

@ 9:50

No.

It's 10 o'clock in the morning- are you high on crack?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:02 AM

Really 950? You surely embellish to mock.

Regardless of who is protesting, you cannot deny that the government and corporate orgies going on in this country (and the world) are destroying the place. Our taxes shouldn't be funding unrepresented dick-measuring wars amongst sociopaths. The majority of people just want to get on with their lives, and that this is being prevented by the forces in power. Forcing austerity on a population is called impoverishment.

It's not a coincidence that their are protests happening across the globe against the current socioeconomic structure. It's not working, and hasn't been for a while.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:04 AM

10:02 - Thanks, you just proved that you are the one high on crack. You are an idiot troll, and you will drown in your ignorance. Your motives are wrong, and I do not trust or believe you. You will not win.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:05 AM

You people are sheep. Anarchist wolves have come into city to rabble rouse and just fuck shit up, and then they cry when they get pepper sprayed?

Nope, you have not convinced me either.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:08 AM

Tea Party >>>>> OWS

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:09 AM

10:04 - no I'm not mocking or any such. I believe in what the Tea Party stands for, which is actually pretty similar to the *statements written previously* allegedly describing the jobless hoodlums squatting downtown.

Of course, the difference is that Tea Party members hold jobs, run small businesses, create jobs, and contribute to society. The Tea Party goals are clear - to reduce the waste and size of a bloated, corrupted government and to champion individual liberty. What is wrong with getting rid of thugs from the government and letting you do what you want to do freely?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:13 AM

^I need to make the coffee party then!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:13 AM

Jeff Mangum has never given a fuck what anybody else thinks, so I don't see why he would give a fuck what you twats think either.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:14 AM

@10:05

You can say that again.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:14 AM

I've seen more intelligent comments on you tube
God this place is doomed

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:16 AM

P.T. Barnum was fond of using 'egress'.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:20 AM

I hope Mayer Hawthorne comes down there tonight

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:22 AM

There is no god.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:27 AM

@ 9:57, 9:58, 10, 10:08

Ignorance is Bliss, isn't it?

Btw, I have a job, my own business, in fact, and own property as well if you must know.

It's going to BLOW YOUR MIND when you see how many people people come out and demonstrate today.

FOLEY SQ. - 4:30pm

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:30 AM

^^ did it blow your mind when the Tea Party descended upon Washington? Of course not -- you're a troll, you're asleep. So, go jump off the bridge with the other sleeping sheep.

Me, I'll fight for freedom and for wresting my government back from the socialist statist occupying that sacred space now.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:35 AM

He means unions.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:35 AM

10:16 defines intelligent comments as those that align with her opinions and preferences.

In other words, a textbook Liberal.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:37 AM

Yeah. If you don't think government has a part in this mess then you are a sheep. You have your head in the sand. You need to wake up and do your research.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:42 AM

the oligarchs are stealing everything. the "tea party" runs interference on their behalf. the "tea party" was directly funded and promoted by these same multi-billion dollar corporate interests.

occupy wall st is diametrically opposed to those social-security-hating social security recipients bussed in by dick armey and koch industries and news corp. talk about incoherent: "keep your government hands off my medicare!"

of course, it's hard to have definite political goals when one of the tenets of your movement is that government is hopeless as a means to achieve your ends. it has been shown repeatedly in the last decades that government and the democratic process are entirely beholden to corporate largesse, and so only serves to facilitate the mendacious goals of the oligarchy.

in that light, the only hope is to have a protest movement, partly to pressure political leaders, but mostly to educate the sleeping public. the misinformed white-haired fox news republicans known as the "tea party" would cease to be a relevant political force if we could break through the juggernaut of corporate media and the corporate-owned democratic process. where better to start than by drawing attention to the outright theft of national wealth that has been perpetrated by and on the behalf of the scum that work on wall st?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:44 AM

@10:30 nobody here is impressed by how many people listen to your shit. Most people here think when things become big they start to suck. It's an "indie" thing.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:45 AM

I don't really understand why more people coming out signifies anything. In this instance, the vast majority of people coming out are lazy, jobless schlubs. I was down there a few times (I work around wall street) and I can tell you I saw, first, hand, a lot of crazy people, cursing and spewing mindless crap.

These people, like those who voted for Obama in 08 believing that he would rid them of debt, pay for their life expenses, etc., are uneducated and mindless.

Honestly, look at the list of demands:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

That's a joke! Where does all the money for this come from? Any 8th grader can tell you this country was founded under the principles that every individual should have the liberty to do what they want with their money. That list of demands completely disregards all of that, assuming that hard workers should give up their pay to lazy, stupid people so that they can become debtless. Under that system, what incentive is there to work hard? None. That is why capitalism reigns supreme. Capitalism is the reason why we have so much technology, progress, and such a high standard of living.

Great example of how broken our current "equality" system is (the one that states people deserve things because they exist) is an article by former NFL QB and current small business advocate Fran Tarkenton.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204226204576601232986845102.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Read it. That will blow your mind. Maybe educate yourself on how the economy works too. Without money, and the incentive to work hard to make money, people become complacent. That's exactly what's happening at OWS - a bunch of complacent fools.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:48 AM

LOCK UP YOUR DAUGHTERS....THE ANARCHISTS ARE COMING


and oh heavens look at those people w tattoos! they must be DERANGED!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:49 AM

@10:44 I adore your passion. It's so cute. So naive.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:50 AM

LOL @ people defending Wall Street. they'd toss you to the dogs for entertainment if they could.. keep supporting those who hate you. actually they love you... doing their work for them. tools. haha

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:50 AM

it's awfully easy to call the protesters dirty jobless stupid hippies. especially if you work on wall st. why do i smell paid trolls on this thread all of a sudden?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:50 AM

Tattoos

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:51 AM

yeah some of those demands are coconuts!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:52 AM

LOL @ people defending Obama. he'd toss you to the dogs for entertainment if he could.. keep supporting those who hate you. actually they love you... doing their work for them. tools. haha

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:52 AM

@10:50; you're right, we should give up, go home, accept that the 1% SHOULD be allowed to steal everything, it is their right, after all, they are the achievers, the JOB CREATORS. we'll just go home, accept the scraps they might throw us, let them send our jobs overseas, let them gut the safety net, let them corrupt and take over the political process. after all, it is their right. they own the place. we're merely serfs, right?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:55 AM

@10:50 Paid trolls? You honestly think anyone outside of a bunch of hipsters (myself included) care what anyone on here says? People on wall street (and in any corporation, for that matter) have MUCH bigger fish to fry than a bunch of hipsters. The vast majority of them probably don't give a crap about OWS either. They're actually concerned with making PROGRESS in the country by attempting to make money and create an economy.

You people are out of your minds.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:55 AM

I am not a fan of Wall St, but I am not a fan of the modern Democratic Party either. I think that I represent the vast majority of Americans when I say that we want is to be left alone to pursue happiness, have a burger and fries cooked in trans fat every now and then if we want to, and get the dang government to stop telling us what to do.

If you want to protest, protest the people that have the ability to (a) print our currency and (b) impose laws upon us. All the rest is shouting at Emmanuel Goldstein.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:57 AM

@10:55: yes. paid trolls.

create what economy now? wall st created an economy that serves only themselves. an economy that doesn't MAKE anything, an economy that thrives on squeezing false, temporarily, out of valueless assets, leaving society to pick up the costs when it all falls apart.

if you ever read threads on any website on corporate thievery, or on global warming, or on any subject that is sensitive to the 1%, for fear that if the public ever understood, their golden castles might be in danger, then you'd see the obfuscation, the sock puppetry, the outright lies and demonization, that can only come from true misguided passion, but in the quantity that this filth is spewed, it is clear there is an army of these people who do nothing all day but seek out threads to troll and derail. that takes time, it takes effort. aside from a dedicated few true believers, this is clearly a coordinated effort. and it has been reported that certain big corporate interest groups have developed bots to scour and troll certain threads with certain keywords. can't prove it, but i've seen some good reporting that this is the case.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:01 AM

To anyone criticizing job creators -- My advice to you? CREATE YOUR OWN COMPANY. INVEST IN YOUR IDEAS.

Oh wait, you can't! Because Obama has made it nearly impossible to get money from anyone except the gvt.

And you're blaming business owners for wanting to be able to control their own money? Do you honestly think government can create jobs??

All this talk about how FDR saved the country (the biggest argument for job creation by gvt) is now heavily debated and thought, by many parties, as actually a processes that EXTENDED the depression.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304024604575173632046893848.html

The only way to create sustainable jobs is for privately run companies to be able to invest in themselves. Maybe the protestors on wall street should go protest Obama to allow that, instead of miseducationally pointing fingers at the real progressives (business owners)

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:03 AM

bravo Jeff!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:06 AM

I think Jeff wasn't a good act to play the protest because he is the king of carrot flowers...he was selfish and didn't share the carrot flowers with anyone else!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:07 AM

""This rules. So great to see this movement growing. It's about time". -tweeted by Ryanpitchfork shortly after Mango played."

Not sure if I absolutely hate or essentially love Mangum being referred to as 'Mango'.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:08 AM

JON BRION ANNOUNCED ENCORE SHOW AT LPR, OCTOBER 9TH, TICKETS ONSALE NOW

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:09 AM

Additionally, to those lambasting free market society, I'd like to see some written proof (from legitimate sources) so we can actually have an educated debate.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:09 AM

He is Mango.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:11 AM

@11:03

BO hasn't made impossible to get $$$, the BANKS have.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:13 AM

Wow, BV has blocked my posting!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:16 AM

@11:13

Banks haven't made it impossible to get $$$, BO has.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:16 AM

Or, at least, he wont let me post links.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:16 AM

Mangum is good, but this movement really needs a uniter. What will it take to get C.h.r.i.s B.a.r.r.o.n down there?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:22 AM

Cure
Helmet
Radiohead
Interpol
Sonic Youth
Beruit
Air
Rush
Ryan Adams
Oasis
No Age???

Probably alot! Oasis broke up, some are not on tour...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:32 AM

^Huh?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:35 AM

It's completely unsurprising how many people in here align with Wall Street and the Tea Party. And granted, a decent chunk of the OWS crowd are lazy, entitled douchebags. But that's going to happen when any movement starts. But I'll take a nuanced, considered response from one of those people over a similar platform from one of their enemies. Seriously. The Tea Party. What fucking twats. At least OWS aren't fighting a trench war for people that loathe them.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:36 AM

People grow complacent because they hate capitalism and it's ends

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:46 AM

11:35 I get it...look at the first letter of each band!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:49 AM

You got it all wrong. It's:

Helium
Of Montreal
Olivia Tremor Control
Tame Impala
Ima Robot
Elf Power

Duh

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:57 AM

White people. Hippies. LOL

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 11:58 AM

Yeah. The 60's. Still giving people romantic notions of "making a difference". Haha! Eventually they'll become part of the machine (well some of them) that the next generation will want to destroy before they join.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:03 PM

Yum. Lunch break.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:28 PM

How the fuck are any of you people defending the confiscation of wealth by Wall St. and the government?

Where are they creating jobs that haven't already been removed?

Is the creation of one job worth the removal of thousands?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:36 PM

Why arn't you losers in DC!! 'we bailed out the banks' is all I hear... well,sorta..the gov bailed out the banks with your parents taxpayer loot. The GOVERMENT. Not some bank or made up wall streeter.

Do you really think Goldman or any other I Bank would have said peep if the gov told them they had to take .50 cents on the dollor for their CDS with AIG? or .10 cents or nothing at all?

If your not protesting to elected legislators in DC then your just having a party in a lil shanty town no bigger then a football field yelling at working stiffs and tourists. If the city is a circus, you are the freakshow. Go to DC and make a real difference then just your non-conformist cred.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:42 PM

^ True story.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:52 PM

i absolutely cannot believe that BV commenters are against OWS.
Obviously NYC is entirely fileed with nitwit transplants, the scourge of american ignorance and idiocy. you my friends represent everything that is wrong with this country.
bet you think america is a "great place."
for shame.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:56 PM

^ Haha! For shame?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 12:57 PM

wow this thread is outing BV commenters as the facsist, right wing republican a-holes that make up this site.. disgusted and getting really turned off the BV at this point. nothing cool here

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:01 PM

wow i can't believe BV lost all of its coolness in one single thread.
IT'S NOT COOL TO BE RIGHT WING
WAKE UP

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:04 PM

^ A lot of said nitwits don't even live within a 100 miles of NYC.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:06 PM

Oh it will be in dc soon...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:06 PM

1:01 or they are trolls...ever notice how there is always an opposite of opinions on this site...

Dan Deacon is cool...Dan Deacon Sucks
Hummus Rules..Hummus Sucks
T5 is terrible..T5 is good!?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:09 PM

Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a troll, stupid and stupid. Wah!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:16 PM

it's already in dc. it's in cities all over the country. will it grow and become a protest movement on par with the civil rights movement? obviously not. although the injustice and the deceit and the human suffering resulting from the current imbalances in society may rival those of the jim crowe era, there is nothing of the passion or the broad understanding of it that was present then. mostly because of people of the ilk found besmirching the ows protesters, spoon fed lies on a daily basis, lapping it up with wanton pleasure. get a clue, it's your country they're stealing while you defend them.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:17 PM

^ Stupid comment. Doesn't understand what Jim Crowe days were probably like.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:19 PM

t5 sucks. i don't even think the trolls around here are brazen enough to counter that simple fact, though some contend if you're close enough to the stage it's not so bad. hogwash. you're still going to a show at t5. it would have been better ANYWHERE else.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:20 PM

I am conservative and read BV all the time. I live in New York and work in the music biz.

I also happen to think America IS a great place, with great people. You, who continuously bash Republicans because of ideology without giving credible proof of your beliefs, just happen to be what's wrong with the country. You are severely mislead. Instead of supporting people who care about investing in the future of this country (businesses) you continue to support a government that wants to take everyones' money and spend it wildly and without cause.

If you hate this country so much, get out. Leave us Republicans to correct it. You can have fun someplace else, where civil liberties aren't as highly valued.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:22 PM

did jim crowe ever illegal foreclose on millions of homes? did jim crowe ever trheaten to bankrupt the nation? did jim crowe ever promise the wealthiest in society a free pass to steal everything? the personal indignities suffered by black americans prior to (and after) the 1960s are obviously of a different kind than the destruction being wrought on this nation by the class of thieves and liars that have taken over our government and institutions, but that scale of the fallout could be far worse. there may not be a country left to fight for, as there was in the 60s. they'll leave us a hollowed out shell.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:24 PM

@1:24...blaming big business is completely misdirecting your anger. But you're right to blame the corrupt gvt (and fed).

It's the government my friends. Big gvt and a non-free market caused all of this.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:27 PM

^ Double down on the stupid comment. Good for you.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:27 PM

right right right, private capital markets played NO PART WHATSOEVER in crashing the economy. and the largest companies in the world aren't fighting tooth and nail so they can keep stealing, paying no taxes, moving jobs overseas, polluting as much as they please, all while pumping money into the political process and gobbling up all forms of mass media to further those ends...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:29 PM

Paying no taxes? Explain how that's the case...

Lets say, for the sake of MY ideal government, there is a flat tax (25%)

If I make 1 million dollars, I pay 250k

If I make 20k, I pay 5k.

See, there, how the rich person pays 50 times what the poor person makes? I'd consider that a pretty equal split.

Rich people have, generally, earned their riches. You cannot possibly argue to me that the CEO of, I don't know, Continental (or United, or whatever you want to call it) hasn't earned his place as the CEO.

And guess what? He earned it because he was smart, and savvy. He was rewarded for that.

You start raising taxes on the rich, there's actually a plateau where it doesn't make a difference if you're rich anymore. And you know what happens then? People lose interest in even trying. Say goodbye to technological progress.

You can argue that, in the instance of continental, they don't really care about their passengers. Flights are expensive, and airlines poorly. You know why? It has nothing to do with the CEO. It's government regulation.

First, it's airline travel is absurdly over-regulated.

Second, oil is expensive. You know why? Not because there isn't oil...it's because we've done such a fantastic job of over-regulating our oil drilling, that we no longer have the edge, meaning our demand is higher than our supply.

And guess what else! Just because we stopped drilling in certain places doesn't mean other countries have. Soon, we'll be at the whim of China and Russia. Good job America! Lets let those countries screw us over.

The moral of the stories, kids, is that over regulation is causing a lot of the very issues that ya'll are complaining about. Do some research and maybe you'll learn a thing or two!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:37 PM

dur dur, do some research maybe you'll learn a thing or two. if we drilled for oil, the price would come down, dur dur dur. what a moron.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:40 PM

Wow, what a great response, @1:40. With all the accusations of conservative trolling on here, I'd think I could get a better argument of that out of you. Apparently not.

That's a much greater example of trolling.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:41 PM

sometimes idiocy is self-evident. 1:37 nailed it.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:49 PM

To all you schizophrenic pinko twats - your talk is tiresome ... leave the site, and the country, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Measured response? No goals? Nah, as a lifelong New Yorker I say you need to get the fuck out, Skippy. Go back to Ames, Iowa where you can resume your job as village idiot. You are no longer welcomed in my city.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:53 PM

"although the injustice and the deceit and the human suffering resulting from the current imbalances in society may rival those of the jim crowe era ..."
written at 1:17 today, on an iPhone from a coffee house. think about that for a minute.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 1:56 PM

"did jim crowe ever illegal foreclose on millions of homes?"

was jim crowe the recipient of government policies that penalized banks for not extending loans to him, loans that he could not possibly repay, all to buy his vote to keep the government's legislative power in power?

yeah, the truth hurts. if you were capable of multi-level thinking you would have a much more reasoned argument. you do not.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:00 PM

you wouldn't have missed this if you read the occupy wall street twitter feed. they indicated there would be a performer at 10:00pm last night. i couldn't make it and i'm thankful for the BV post of the video. i'm not a jeff mangum worshiper. saw nmh a bunch around '96 or so and always enjoyed myself. but i got chills during the first song there. thanks again BV. this makes up for all of your luna del payday posts.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:00 PM

just briefly, flat tax. it isn't flat. you pretend that federal income tax is the only tax. it isn't. if you wanted to achieve flat taxation, which shouldn't be the ideal anyway, as those at the top have benefited disproportionately from society's prodcutiveness and should be happy to pay more relative to their total income and wealth, you still would need a progessive income tax to offset the regressive nature of most payroll, sales, and property taxes. it's just math.

furthermore, 1:53 nailed it. i don't like you, i don't like your politics, i'm going to insult you and kick you out. very open-minded, you are, clinging to a discredited corporatist ideology that will cost us all dearly.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:00 PM

...sigh...it's a lost cause with some people. @2:00, feel free to pay more taxes if you want. There is no one stopping you from giving more of your money to the government. I, however, prefer to choose where my money goes. I happen to think I'm better and judging an investment then Obama.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:05 PM

"was jim crowe the recipient of government policies that penalized banks for not extending loans to him, loans that he could not possibly repay, all to buy his vote to keep the government's legislative power in power?

yeah, the truth hurts. if you were capable of multi-level thinking you would have a much more reasoned argument. you do not."

you know the banks were only too happy to extend exploding loans to people who had no chance at paying them back, right? you know it was decades of deregulation in the mortgage industry that led to these practices, right? why do you think it took 30+ years for the community reinvestment act to kick in? wouldn't there be mortgages written long before 2000, then, that would have gone bust? oh right, that didn't happen. you live in a world of mythology. reasoned argument. multi-level thinking. you are a grade-a nincompoop.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:05 PM

...sigh...it's a lost cause with some people. @2:00, feel free to pay more taxes if you want. There is no one stopping you from giving more of your money to the government. I, however, prefer to choose where my money goes. I happen to think I'm better and judging an investment then Obama.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:05 PM

And, @2:00, furthermore, that sentiment I just proposed, about paying more taxes if you like, should apply to ANYONE willing to say they want to tax the rich more. The government will happily accept the money. But I happen to believe that, if you earn the money, it's yours. Obama doesn't send me a pay check every month, so I don't see why I should have to send him one....

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:07 PM

2:00 - I'm not the guy you are posting too, but I thought that you should know that I don't like you, or your warped thought process, or your straw man arguments. I would have been happy to engage you in a rational debate, but I have come to realize that it is in fact fruitless, that you people are just certifiably insane. You are not welcomed here. Get out and take your fascist totalitarian ideals with you. Maybe there is still a country in South America whose populous has not educated and armed itself enough to execute your kind yet.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:08 PM

Amen 2:08.

If you believe so strongly in socialism and anti-progression, go live in a country where they don't value it either.

I happen to love the American ideals. This country has done great things, and it will again. But not with the likes of you here to muddle it.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:10 PM

classic canard: if you want to pay more taxes, go ahead. that's not how taxes work, and that's not how we're going to pay down $14 trillion rung up on the credit card for tax cuts and wars. you guys sure are polished on your fox news talking points. i've seen trolling like this before.

and, the community reinvestment act lie is commonly used to blame the recession on poor black people. pretty sick, really. i've listened to plenty of limbaugh, i know the tricks.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:10 PM

Why shouldn't that be how taxes work? Why should someone who earned a higher living, and made their money by working hard and being smart, be FORCED to give their money to someone else to invest? It's not as though Obama has been held accountable for wasting countless dollars into stupid bills.

Again, as I've been saying this whole time, the enemy is big government, not businesses.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:12 PM

Who is Jim Crowe? Does he have any NYC shows coming up that are worth checking out?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:13 PM

occupy wall st should, and it seems it does, scare the piss out of the fat cats in the penthouse. their days at the top are numbered. either we take back democracy from them, or eventually the means of taking it back will become un-democratic. no one wants to see that day. but that is how oligarchies fall, it's how feudalism ends. and no one will be better off for it, if we can't balance society's books in an equitable way using peaceful means. time's up. we're in the streets now. you better listen. we want this country back. it's not yours, it's ours. we are the 99%.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:14 PM

"classic canard: if you want to pay more taxes, go ahead. that's not how taxes work"

That's exactly how taxes work, Shirley. You have a minimum amount that you are obliged to pay, and then you can pay more as you see fit. People do it all the time ... people that are busy working, earning money, not sitting around bitching about the weather.

How much taxes is Warren Buffet paying? You do know that he has had a band of lawyers tying up the federal courts for years arguing that he should be allowed to pay even less taxes than his Capital Gains rate allows him to, don't you? Or how about the convicted felon George Soros? How much taxes is he paying - to the US that is?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:17 PM

You're not the 99%. The 99% are the people working in offices right now to support their families. They're the people who pay 35% of their taxes to government and see little return from those payments. They're the ones who struggle to pay the bills, but continue to because they know that working hard CAN pay off.


Occupy Wall Street is a rare .001% who think that protesting for an unidentifiable cause that scares NO ONE (Read that. NO ONE. I haven't seen any changes yet to "fat cats")
means they're representing the country.

They are mislead fools.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:17 PM

How I love you, 2:17. We should go grab a beer sometime. You're the only logical one on here :-D

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:18 PM

P.S. that wasn't sarcasm.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:18 PM

armed to execute, are ye? we'll see, i guess. that seems to be the end game for the old guard, isn't it? we could well be on the road to civil war. i wouldn't doubt it. because the majority have been deprived of their rights, of their access to power, to a decent life. and because the powers that be have created a very powerful mythology to protect themselves, and wrapped it in flags and guns. very sad, really, that that's your fallback position. it speaks to your powerful intellect.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:20 PM

I laugh at the smelly entitled ows creeps. Not even worth a snark. Pathetic, really.

And the community reinvestment act was passed and the blame belongs to the Democrat congress that applied a unrealistic legislative paradigm upon those poor black folk, and white folk, and Chinese folk, etc.

The modern Democratic party is to blame. Your anger is misdirected.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:21 PM

Glenn Beck drones have been unleashed on BV.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:22 PM

2:17pm -

99% pay 35% of taxes? 99% make more than $380K?

Then fuck the 99% if that's the case. Most people I know are in the .01% that are working their dicks off and wonder why billionaires aren't get taxed as much as we are.


Maybe get your fucking facts straight and stop regurgitating right wing propa.ganda designed to make you feel better about your privileged status.

Also, learn how to spell "misled."

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:22 PM

Dude, I make less than 60k and I pay 35%

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:24 PM

@ 2:21: it's a Democratic congress. Democrat is a noun.

@2:08: advocacy of a progressive tax system is grounds for execution? that's a warped thought process in your world? wow.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:24 PM

Dude, I make less than 60k and I pay 35%

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:25 PM

there's an unprecedented economic collapse coming and dollars aren't going to be worth the paper they're printed on. try to enjoy yourselves while you still can, that's what i'm doing.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:26 PM

whoa whoa whoaaaaa....So most American's dont lead a decent life? What do you consider a decent life?

Last time I checked, even the poorest of the poor owned laptops, high end cell phones, etc.

What do you consider high end? Because the standard of living in the US, event at the lowest level, is pretty damned high.....

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:27 PM

"majority have been deprived of their rights, of their access to power, to a decent life. and because the powers that be have created a very powerful mythology to protect themselves, and wrapped it in flags and guns"

Thank Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Schmuck Schumer, Harry Reed, Edward Kennedy, Christopher "friend of Angelo" Dodd, Tom Daschle, Howard Dean, etc. etc.

You want to make change for the better, toss these tossers out and put in people whose entire career is not beholden to special interests and those same Wall St. thugs you are attempting to disrupt. Wall St. doesn't print money; Wall St. doesn't make law.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:27 PM

2:24 You're doing your papers wrong. 35% is the top tax federal income bracket in our country.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:28 PM

oh wait wait wait, 2:27 wins the award for the dumbest of dumb right-wing fox news canards! the poor are realllyyyyy....RICH BECAUSE THEY HAVE BASIC APPLIANCES!!!! congratulations, you win two tickets to see the s p i n d o c t o r s play brooklyn bowl later this month!!!!!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:28 PM

2:24 - straw man, going straight to the devil

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:29 PM

where's the straw man? i don't see it?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:30 PM

2:24 is probably counting his health care premium, 401k, federal, state, and local, in addition to filling out his papers wrong.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:31 PM

2:28 - you've had your fun, now get me my latte and hurry bitch I got a meeting uptown.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:31 PM

35% for FEDERAL income tax is the tops. You forget about state taxes, city taxes.

Add it up, it's 35%. Well, 33%. Forgive me for rounding up.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:32 PM

2:31, i just finished fucking your wife, hold on let me get that latte.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:32 PM

Oh yeah, Social Security too. I consider that lost money, seeing as the gvt. enjoys spending so much, it won't be around when I'm old enough to enjoy it.

Thanks Obama!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:33 PM

i like his condoms

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:34 PM

This is the outcome of the American public educational system.

We have failed. Our children have not been taught to think.

Time to get rid of the the whole existing educational infrastructure and rebuild it correctly, without the unions and money grabbers.

Maybe then your children will be taught properly and know how to smell bullshit when it comes around.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:34 PM

obama has nothing to do with spending your social security taxes. that's been the mo of the government for years. the social security trust fund is filled with treasury paper. it's been used to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy and bloated military budgets for decades.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:34 PM

2:32 if you fucked my wife you're a sick muthafuckah since she's dead.

you should be arrested. there are laws against even that.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:35 PM

2:34 - agreed that Obama didn't start it. too bad he's gonna feel the cost of allowing that Ponzi scheme to perpetuate though.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:37 PM

why do people on this site who are bad at arguing / making a point always do the whole "i fucked your wife" thing? i don't get it.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:37 PM

Haha! Occupy Wall Street, your "movement" is being taken over. Pay attention.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:37 PM

If anyone wants to learn about the terrible education system in the US (a la @2:34) read the fran tarkenton article someone posted above. I thought it was pretty educational...)

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:38 PM

I am shocked at just how sickeningly out of touch many of these BV posters are.

Government is the problem. Don't think so? Wall Street won't be sending in the National Guard when you fucks start burning cars down there. Then it becomes all our problem, and I for one will not be so patient with your anarchist rhetoric then. Then, you'll have to deal with me.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:40 PM

occupy wall st is just the beginning. americans know that corporate money has poisoned the political process. americans know that the rich don't pay taxes. americans know that their jobs are being sent overseas due to unfair trade agreements. and americans know that we are powerless to stop it through the political process because it is poisoned by the same interests that are destroying us. i don't know if this complacent, fat, and largely stupid country is ready to fight for its birthright just yet. things aren't bad enough yet. maybe we should elect another republican and hasten the fall.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:42 PM

Americans know that a bloated liberal government is the cause of the erosion of their standard of living, their liberties, their childrens' future, and the exploding national debt.

Don't believe me? Just read some recent polling data. Just wait until Nov. 2012. You think that Reagan was a swing to the right? You haven't seen anything yet.

Our numbers are growing, your numbers are waning. That's the fact.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:47 PM

since when was advocating for raising taxes on the wealthy to fund national priorities and withdrawing from free trade agreements to bring jobs back home any kind of anarchist rhetoric? and why are you always itching for violence against peaceful protesters? and, don't you get it, wall st OWNS the government. big business OWNS the government. it IS their national guard. it WOULD BE their guy calling them out, if, god forbid, that were ever to happen. this is not a democracy, of, by, and for the people. this is an oligarchy, of, by, and for the oligarchy. everything they do is to protect their position, protect their absolute wealth and absolute power. the people will eventually take the power back. we can do it now through education and demonstration and pressure, or we can wait until things become much, much worse, and so to do the means of change.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:48 PM

Pretty freaky to be married to a dead chick, too, if you want to be fair about it. Now that's something I thought would definitely be illegal. Not that I have a personal problem with it. To each his own.

On a more related note, almost all of you have amazed me - that some of you can remember to breathe or put one foot in front of the other while walking is nothing short of incredible.

Redistribute all the wealth - all of it - and see how quickly it goes back to people who have put forth effort to be GOOD at what they do - whatever it is. See how quickly the same people bitching about corporations here give up all their newfound wealth to the same corporations that have it now. It's a combination of selfishness, greed, stupidity and laziness that land these people on the street "protesting". I could go on, but it's depressing how crystal clear this is, yet so much of it has to be explained (just to be ignored). I guess they've tricked themselves into thinking the money for that iPhone went to something other than a corporation.

That list of demands on their website is profoundly disturbing to anyone who has ever cared for or worked for anything.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:48 PM

2:48 - we all see through your straw man argument. you are clearly not capable of complex or multidimensional thought.

you should leave the debating to the grown ups.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:49 PM

she wadn't dead when i married her, fuckface.

but you knew that already.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:50 PM

"Straw man". The insult of the day.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:51 PM

You'd like a flat tax - OK! Everyone should pay their fair share. But it should apply to ALL income. There are billions of dollars in investment income that the rich don't pay tax on by taking advantage of carried interest loopholes and capital gains breaks. How is that fair? They didn't even earn that money through their own hard work.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:53 PM

ah just taking the piss out of you 2.50. sorry.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:54 PM

We who have so much to you who have so little
to you who don't have anything at all
We who have so much more than any one man does need
and you who don't have anything at all, ah
Does anybody need another million dollar movie
does anybody need another million dollar star
Does anybody need to be told over and over
spitting in the wind comes back at you twice as hard

Strawman, going straight to the devil
strawman, going straight to hell
Strawman, going straight to the devil

Strawman
strawman
Strawman
strawman, yes

Does anyone really need a billion dollar rocket
does anyone need a 60,000 dollars car
Does anyone need another president
or the sins of Clinton parts 6, 7, 8 and 9, ah
Does anyone need yet another Congressman
caught with his pants down and iPhone sticking in his hole
Does anyone need another racist Senator
spittin' in the wind can only do you harm, ooohhh

Strawman, going straight to the devil
strawman, going straight to hell
Strawman, going straight to the devil

Strawman
strawman
Strawman
strawman

Does anyone need another faulty shuttle
blasting off to the moon, Venus or Mars
Does anybody need another self-righteous rock singer
whose nose he says has led him straight to Global Warming
Does anyone need yet another blank skyscraper
if you're like me I'm sure a minor miracle will do
A flaming sword or maybe a gold ark floating up the Hudson
when you spit in the wind it comes right back at you

Strawman, going straight to the devil
Strawman, going straight to hell
Strawman, going to the devil

Strawman, strawman
strawman, ...., ah
Strawman
strawman

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:54 PM

It's not fair. I agree it's not. That means the soroses of the world should be paying their fair share, and they're not.

But the point is, it's NOT big business's fault. It's the government. They don't know how to spend money.

At least when big business cheats gvt out of money (not that I think they should) they generally put it towards their business, which honestly HELPS our economy.

The gvt is just out to screw it over. At least Obama's is. I refuse to believe this economic meltdown isn't exactly what he wanted. Socialism is coming, with him in office, and it's not a good thing.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:56 PM

Income tax is applied to all income after deductions by definition, Einstein.

Flat tax = take away the deductions.

Instead of hurling insults at "right wingers" or "tea baggers" or "Fox News" you should spend a nanosecond to read some of the proposals our side has. Steve Forbes made the flat tax proposal over a decade ago, nearly took Iowa that year.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 2:58 PM

Spppppiinnn DDoctors are playing tonight. Wall street is going to implode!!!!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:00 PM

^ and go to the source, not Rachel Madcow's "interpretation" of the proposal (she is batshit crazy, you know)

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:00 PM

YES, government is responsible - for deregulating the financial industry and not stopping the corruption before it was too late. Those who gamed and took advantage of the system (Hi Goldman Sachs!) need to pay the consequences and our government has failed us all by not prosecuting them and taking away their power. This is why people are so mad and starting to take a stand.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:01 PM

Guys, help me with some Baron Davis indie rock band names.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:02 PM

Jeff Magnum is playing Monday Night Football from now on.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:02 PM

It is not gvt's business to interfere with corporate America.

After a crime is committed, gvt can step in. But government is not there to babysit America

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:04 PM

flat tax isn't flat. it's regressive.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:05 PM

let's find a job when we are in one of the worst recessions in history. i know plenty of people out of a job and it is not due to any kind of laziness.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:11 PM

It's also not due to companies who can afford to pay the people...

It stems, at this point, and is worsened by a government that discourages any sort of private sector growth and believes that having more people relying on it is better for the country.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:14 PM

3:02 that is funny!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:15 PM

^3:02 number 2 that is!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:15 PM

So you're saying corporate America can regulate itself? Didn't they already have that chance over the past 15+ years? That's how we got in this mess!

Many crimes have been committed and the government has become too weak to enforce the law.

It should be the government's job to represent the public interest and prevent corporations from becoming too powerful. Our government failed miserably and look where we are.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:18 PM

weird to see so many republicans on here. no wonder indie music has no soul.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:19 PM

"There are no excuses left. Either you join the revolt taking place on Wall Street and in the financial districts of other cities across the country or you stand on the wrong side of history."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:19 PM

ANNOUNCEMENT! Mango will not be heading to play Monday Night Football from now on. It was a hoax.

Posted by yeah right | October 5, 2011 3:21 PM

it IS the government's job to "interfere" with corporate america, to the extent that corporate america's interests, goals, and methods run counter to america's interests, goals, and methods. that is why we have a commerce clause, that is why people get to vote and not corporations. unfortunately, by giving corporations unlimited financial sway over the political process, we've reached a point where corporations control the government, rather than people controlling the government and using its power to rein in the worst impulses of corporatism.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:21 PM

Yeah. Occupy Wall Street, your "movement" is now over. It is now a small part of "Obama 2012". The class warfare arm. Congrats on making it to the majors kids.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:24 PM

It's good to see this thread out in the open. The fact of the matter is, with our current Military spending, that we are going to continue pissing away an insane amount of money.

There are certain parts of the conservative agenda that, when isolated from the other threads, and from the insane people shouting them, make a great deal of sense. But it's no different than Ron Paul's "I believe in liberty (except for your pussy)" platform. A charade.

I believe in socialized medicine, as does the rest of the civilized world. Beyond that, if we cut Military spending DRASTICALLY, I'd be content living under at least half of the insane Tea Party ideals. It's certainly not what I believe in, but if you have the freedom to get sick and not be bankrupted for the rest of your life, I'm not terribly concerned beyond that.

However, shouting from the top of the mountain that the payroll tax is somehow the reason why our money is getting squandered en masse is ludicrous. Look at a fucking pie chart, people.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:28 PM

obama is going to have a hard time getting the votes of the people who have formed the core of this movement, and those who would support the movement. obama has failed us miserably, he is as much a tool of the oligarchy as the trolls on this board. he just has more ability to carry their water to its final destination. yeah, he's all for raising taxes on the wealthiest and supporting labor in its moment of existential crisis and stimulating the economy. right, just like he'll close gitmo and fight for a public option and let the bush tax cuts expire.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:31 PM

^ You will fall in line or you will be shouted down.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:33 PM

If you want socialized medicine, move to England.

Obamacare will be stripped apart one piece at a time. State by state if need be.

You don't like it? Leave. Really.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:34 PM

Socialized medicine is a DRAG on society. Look at Europe -- in TERRIBLE economic conditions.

privatized health care creates competitive balance. If it wasn't for so much government regulations, health care would be a lot cheaper.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:36 PM

I think hummus should be tax free.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:36 PM

There is no movement so intolerant of discussion, contrary opinion, and compromise as the anarchist fascist Left movement.

My great grandparents left Italy to escape this shit. They would be appalled at what is accepted as "measured, rational" with these cretins.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:38 PM

republican guy posting 50 times does not understand the "TLDR" principle that keeps us short-attention-span mango fans from feeling his pain. Sorry!

that said... mango rules! are you ready for some football?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:42 PM

seriously guys, what's with the, you don't like it, leave, stuff? furthermore, privatized health insurance is a disaster. the amount of your premiums that go to profit and overhead is insane, and the profit motive on the provider side is skewing the system further. medicine is not an industry that lends itself to free maket capitalism. it is an essential, and there are exceptional barriers to entry into any of the medical fields, from insurance to doctors to equipment makers, that put them all in a position of power over the market. this is not a functioning free market and it never will be.

honestly, all these "free market capitalists" running around need to take a class in economics. it's not that simple. there are very few truly "free" markets. most are heavily monopolized and concentrated into mega-corporations that do nothing but suck wealth and screw over the public at every opportunity.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:43 PM

amen 3:38. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Guys lets fight to SAVE America, and bring it back to its prominence, not change it to be more like the broken continent that is Europe.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:43 PM

3:42 - there are at least 3 different "republican guys" posting here.

I do however count only one loud, entitled, smelly anarchist trying to build straw man arguments but lacking the intelligence to see how transparent it is.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:45 PM

3:43 - straw man, straw man,
Stah-raaaaw Maaayyy-Aaaaaannnn!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:47 PM

i have no problem with allowing private health insurance companies to continue to operate. i don't advocate for tearing down the system in favor of a pure, government-run single payer. actually, i think a mixed system can deliver a better outcome with more efficiency and better overall coverage for everyone. start with a basic, govenrnment option anyone can buy into (or receive subsidies to help buy into). private insurnace can offer any kind of coverage they want, but they have to then offer a product that has additional value over what the government offers. additionally, this would help to keep pressure on providers to offer a level of care that satisfies customers, maintain a diverse marketplace with numerous options, and ensure everyone has access to a minimum of decent, affordable care.

but, build up your straw men. send me to the UK since i'm such a pinko. maybe even execute me, if that's your wont. can't have disagreement, can't have differing opinions, can we? can't have a rational discussion based in fact. must live in a world of mythology where fox news is always right. tide comes in, tide goes out, you can't explain that.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:48 PM

I can't get mad.
The uneducated will always resort to emotion to compensate for their lack of understanding (of economics, of business, of political philosophy esp. those thinkers that were influential to the founders, of psychology, of the law).

When all you got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:49 PM

"one loud, entitled, smelly anarchist trying to build straw man arguments but lacking the intelligence to see how transparent it is."

since it's so transparent, let's see all those straw men. line them up. copy and paste with quotation marks for us.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:51 PM

anarchist? that is a straw man. the lone screaming liberal on this board is in favor of governmental solutions to societal problems. how is that anarchist in any way? you're a moron.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:53 PM

I believe in a level playing field. Until the private health insurance companies can print money when they need it, or write laws to tilt the competitive advantage toward their agenda we cannot live in the level, utopian mixed system your professors sold you, 3:48.

And no one threatened to execute you. Get over yourself.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:53 PM

That list of demands that is being propegated IS a joke, but its also a random posting on the Occupy Wall Street website.

One wouldn't, for example, expect Brooklyn Vegan's demands for existence to appear on his comment's section. Ignoring the obvious stupidity of free hummus for everyone and pissing on James Murphy, one would be a fool* to think a commentator is speaking for the movement.

*Don't ever underestimate the ability's of fools to dominate discourse.

Posted by Reasonable is good | October 5, 2011 3:56 PM

"Maybe there is still a country in South America whose populous has not educated and armed itself enough to execute your kind yet."

also, the government's agenda, ideally, is the peoples' agenda. health care is something that serves the people. it is an essential commodity. it should not be a trillion-dollar profit center for the super-rich. it falls squarely under the powers of congress to regulate this interstate commerce to further the general welfare of the people who elect them. but instead, they regulate the market to maximize the profits of the corporations that pay for their elections and propagandize the public into believing that only with massive private profits will adequate medical services be provided. it is total bunk. the system is broken. and you are a pathetic tool of it.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:56 PM

This is crazy. Heated political debate on BV!

NOICE!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:58 PM

wait, when do we get to piss on james murphy? count me in!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:58 PM

3:53, you really need to read some news some times ...
‘This Is Revolution Not Reform’ — Occupy Wall Street Organizer to ‘Excited’ Al Sharpton: We Are Anarchists and Revolutionaries,‘This Is the Beginning of a Revolution in This Country’

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 3:58 PM

straw man. i was called an anarchist. that is bull. because one organizer identified with anarchists, therefore i am one. logic fail.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:00 PM

Wow! Nice. Typical liberal bigots. Picking on the latinos out in South America.

#occupywallst is now #occupybrooklynvegan. I get it. Well played.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:00 PM

3:56 your "Commerce Clause" argument has already been discredited and ruled against by actual federal judges, who don't even read BV.

Nice try.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:00 PM

ice age comin.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:00 PM

Guys, we saw what happen when you let the "people decide". I don't see Obama fixing everyone's problems - paying off your bills, giving you free money.

That's what the general public thought was coming. The problem is with educating the public on what they're getting into. And for that you need something other than the Obama hype-machine

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:01 PM

We're bringing change to Brooklyn Vegan #occupybv. We will have a list of demands and stuff later but we're pissed off now and are not gonna take it no more. We'll be here for a while.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:02 PM

uhh, yeah it's been upheld by several judges too. supreme court's a tossup, they love love love corporate profits, but they hate hate hate obama. tough call there. i'm thinking corporate profits win, and obama care stays. maybe that's the victory, then. terrible health care law upheld by supreme court, sets precedent for future improvements.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:03 PM

#occupybv's first demand shall now be put to a vote. un-ban references to the s p i n d o c t o r s. we demand our voices be heard!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:05 PM

The problem is the government. Too big, too entrenched. To full of itself.

If that "socialized medicine" thing was so fair and excellent, how come the Dem-controlled House AND Senate voted to give themselves, their families, their staffs waivers on it?

No, all animals are created equal (but some are more equal than others).

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:05 PM

wait, obama's been sending me free money and paying my bills. he paid off my house too. you suckers just didn't sign up!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:06 PM

4:03, have you always had this victim complex?

Sonya Sottomayor is a corporatist? Ruth Bader Ginsberg?

You really need to stop hitting that pipe and grab some sleep, your body needs it.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:07 PM

S P IN D O CT OR is a no no here?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:08 PM

4:01 gets his talking points from hannity.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:08 PM

#occupybv demand 2.

More Die Antwoord.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:09 PM

Ah the old "I can't think of a counter to those points so I'll accuse him of getting them from Hannity" trick ....

Veddy Shmaaht, Shmaaht!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:10 PM

4:01: straw man. anyone who thought obama would pay their bills... that sure doesn't represent the vast majority of his voters. i bet white supremacists voted for mccain. man, everyone who voted for mccain is a white supremacist, by that logic.

4:07: since when did sonya and ruth get to cast deciding votes in supreme court cases? oh yeah, that's right, the roberts court falls 5-4 on the side of corporate greed every single time. but you're right, i should definitely stop hitting the pipe and get some sleep. if by hitting the pipe you mean plugging your mom's ass with my huge dick.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:12 PM

4:12 = straw man - any opinion that does not reflect your reactionary left opinions is labeled as "corporate greed".

This is why your side will lose. You build your arguments on sand.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:14 PM

Very classy, 4:12. Thanks for sinking to my expectations that all Liberals resort to name calling and vulgarity when faced with defeat in rigorous honest debate.

You poor little lamb, you really can't see just how much of a caricature your posts portray you to be.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:17 PM

uhh.. no, a straw man is an invented caricature of an opposing argument that is false. like saying that people voted for obama because they thought he would pay their bills. boy, that's easy to make fun of, if it were true. and it's not true. calling me an anarchist, that is a straw man. it would be easy to shoot me down if i were some dumb anarchist, but i'm not, so that is a logical falacy. you are an exceptionally weak debater. maybe go back to school.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:17 PM

oh, i'm sorry, you're right. that was your dad's ass i was plowing last night. they kinda look alike, almost like brother and sister...

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:18 PM

So, what are you 4:17?
Published sources or it's bullshit.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:18 PM

One little, two little, three lit ....

Oh, there's only one pinko fascist poster!

Are you feelin' lonely, you fascist?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:20 PM

i need a published source on what i am? huh? i am a liberal. i am in favor of regulated free markets in monopolized industries, especially in essential industries like health care, energy, and finance. nothing too fancy, really. just logical reforms that will benefit the people and still allow the profit motive to work. debating someone with the skills of an average 9th grader would normally be demeaning to me, but it's been fun wiping the floor with you dumb fucks.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:21 PM

lol 4:21 lol what did i miss today lol omg this is too easy lol lol

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:23 PM

@4:10 is hilarious! but hold on, it's because I love laughing at stupid people

@4:14 arguments built on sand > finances built on sand.

I'd rather be on the arguments are sand and not the financial bedrock being sand side.

I mean, are people really defending banks and the way big biz has a ridiculous heavy hand on the scales vs. normal people in deciding what happens in this country? really?? if so we're more fucked than any of us realize.

**Being angry and frustrated about how shit is being run doesn't make me an anarchist or a commie, those extremes are ridiculous. Those looking for reform, corrections, whatever shouldn't be pigeonholed into the most extreme examples of anything. THAT is ignorant.

Posted by Reasonable is good | October 5, 2011 4:26 PM

4:21 - You are funny. Completely delusional, but funny. I think that the society that you want is being tried elsewhere, but that's not how we roll here in America. You can try banging your head against a wall and fail (like your attempt at debate, and insult, on here today) or you can go find the place where like-minded folks like you can prove all of us wrong. The sad fact (for you) is that the gross majority of this country, historically and presently as supported by objective polling data, does not agree with your vision. Your ideas are fringe as compared to the vast majority of this country, and you could chose to keep yelling here and be an unhappy victim, or you could go find your bliss where others share your ideals.

Not here, though. Not now, not tomorrow, not ever.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:28 PM

"It's going to BLOW YOUR MIND when you see how many people people come out and demonstrate today. FOLEY SQ. - 4:30pm"

Wow, mind blown.

What was supposed to happen now?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:34 PM

@4:21 If you were to hold referendums on what policies America should follow we'd all be in a world of hurt in this country. Sometimes what is RIGHT is NOT what is popular, but it doesn't stop it from being RIGHT. This is where political courage and leadership come in.


Winston Churchill said it best:

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Posted by Reasonable is good | October 5, 2011 4:36 PM

right-wingers got pwned.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:41 PM

SICK THREAD BRO.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:42 PM

#occupybv demand 3.

Post accurate Daft Punk Set times on a regular basis.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:43 PM

wait, who's the anarchist here, the guy who wants GOVERNMENT to regulate industry and provide a more equitable society, or the guy who thinks that government is bad and is the root of all problems and the solution is to eliminate it?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:44 PM

Ah, Winston Churchill, brilliant guy.

“Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.”

“Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.”

“When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.”

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:45 PM

I believe the anarchist is anyone who supports occupy wall street.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:45 PM

#occupybv demand 4: more radiohead threads. can't get enough of those trolls, they're the best!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:45 PM

Definition of an asshole = anyone who is winning an argument with a Liberal

true fact

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:47 PM

ayn rand was a terrible author and an even worse political philosopher, and she received government transfer payments in her old age. discuss.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:47 PM

Ah, looks like the J.V. just showed up
What's the matter son, did the van break down?

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:48 PM

"I believe the anarchist is anyone who supports occupy wall street."

that's pretty funny on its face. are you in 8th grade or 9th?

"Definition of an asshole = anyone who is winning an argument with a Liberal"

well, i haven't seen anyone win an argument with a liberal today, nice try though, you're still an asshole.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:48 PM

lol 4:48 totally missed the point lol oh i haz egg on ma fayf lol lol

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:50 PM

MY VAGINA SMELLS LIKE PINE TODAY

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:50 PM

"I smell dead people"
Feist

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:51 PM

Definition of an asshole = anyone who is winning an argument with a conservative.

ooooh, feel the burn!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:52 PM

#occupybv demand 5

No more Die Antwoord.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:54 PM

you can tell the right-wing trolls that come out of the woodwork on the political threads are not from around here. our normal trolls are much more clever.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:54 PM

Hey 4:52 - that doesn't make sense since Liberals are the ones that resort to name calling whenever you run out of clever things to say.

But yes ... imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Next time, send flowers though. A girl can never get enough flowers.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:56 PM

lol troll = anyone i don't agree with lol too predictable lol lol lol

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:56 PM

nothing turns me on like a girl who fancies herself a conservative and can't argue her way out of a paper bag. holy shit i would pound your vag all night. call me.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:57 PM

please just leave my park. All we want is to have lunch without bongo playing and idiots ranting in my ears. and god the smell is awful down there.

go play kick ball, or wehatever else would normally fill your days, somewhere else.

The only people who you are effecting are ground zero constuction workers and 9-5 office mutts, like me.

Should you be picking in greenwich or DC, or whereever these 'villians' reside -cause they aint down here.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:57 PM

Damn I just realized demand 2 is "more Die Antwoord" while demand 5 is "No more Die Antwoord". We can't have it both ways. We need to organize or no one will take us seriously and Jeff Mango will never play here.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:59 PM

4:57 - aw, ain't you sweet! thanks for your kind offer, but I don't make monkeys - I just train them!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:59 PM

4:57 actually has a good point. however, symbolism is important. americans recognize wall st as a symbol of greed and malfeasance. we're here to stay. sorry bro. i'll ask the hippies to hose down for ya.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 4:59 PM

well played Mr. #occupybv!
*hat tip*

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:00 PM

lol lol troll troll troll lol lol.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:01 PM

OH FUCK! 4:57(1) TOTALLY GOT SERVED! BY A GIRL! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:01 PM

C'mon people now
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try and love one another
Right now

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:06 PM

"Don't blame Wall Street, don't blame the big banks, if you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself. It is not someone's fault if they succeeded, it is someone's fault if they failed".

-Herman Cain (your future president)

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:13 PM

@4:57 needs a lesson in what symbolism means

Posted by Reasonable is good | October 5, 2011 5:15 PM

5:15 please explain in 3000 words or less

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:18 PM

Damn. My mom needs to use the computer. #occupybv is on though. This is day one! We need donations. I'm gonna start a kickstarter. It's gonna pay for an apartment - I mean headquarters! #occupybv

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:23 PM

The Liberal/Conservative split is ridiculous——as they're both destroying the country, one just doesn't give the proverbial reach-around.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:29 PM

5:29 wants a Dirty Sanchez! LOL

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:52 PM

I think that your point 5:29 is like saying O2 and CO2 are destroying the atmosphere. Be careful on the middle of that fence, you might just fall off!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 5:53 PM

Organized Labor = credibility?

Now I HAVE seen it all. Check!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 6:01 PM

#occupybv demand 6

Bring back the cum rag guy! We all miss his insightful capsule reviews!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 6:25 PM

If that crowd is the best that ows can do, with students and labor unions, then I agree with a previous poster - the "movement" is over.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 7:19 PM

The crowds will get bigger when the Democrats manage to spin things sufficiently to make it about how they, the party in power, are the put upon minority fighting for what's right. It's tricky when MoveOn is funded by a billionaire financier and Obama raised a fortune on Wall Street - and has an administration littered with whores from big banks - but I have complete faith in the power of liberal delusions. The ones who actually prosper in the capitalist system will join their filthy and illiterate pinko-anarchist brothers and sisters soon enough.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:08 PM

all of you phonies are getting drunk at dinner parties in new waterfront condos right now

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 8:41 PM

It is a bit surprising to see so many intolerant right wing nitwits on this site. they sure seem freaked out by the use of the word anarchy, which btw has nothing to do w fascism.

The etymology derives from the Greek meaning "without rulers", so for lack of a better word it is a useful in describing some components of OWS.

20,000 people came out tonight, so that does kind of blow my mind a little bit considering last week no one hardly heard of them.

This is sea change, bitches. It's not going away anytime soon.

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 9:44 PM

LOL at 9:44. That CUNY education is paying big dividends!

Posted by Anonymous | October 5, 2011 10:17 PM

I feel sorry for you 9:44. Not only are you a mindless parrot and puppet for the true oligarchs, the establishment ruling class, but you consider the extra numbers from college kids and labor unions as "sea change". When I read that I laughed so hard, then I stopped, I sighed, and I realized that you were serious, that you really believed what you wrote.

Hitler had big numbers at Nurrenberg too. I bet that the average German at the time would have described it nearly identically to how you described this "movement", just substitute "Jew" for whatever your crimincal of the month is. The funny part, George Soros - who is one of the primary donars and strategic planners of these things - is in fact a convicted felon! A real criminal accusing business men of being criminals.

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 8:05 AM

Blaming the banks for recieving bailout money from the federal government is like blaming the mother of the bank robber for receiving a diamond neckless purchased with money from the bank robery.

You "activists" should go after the real bank robber - Jobba the Hut, or the institionalized Federal government and beauracracy that has done nothing but grow bigger and more unweildy and increased in control over our lives.

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 8:10 AM

Magnum added another Jersey City show on sale friday...

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 10:12 AM

Mango!

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 10:17 AM

#occupybv demand 7

Bring back the s p in do ct o r s!!

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 12:50 PM

#occupybv supports athletics

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 1:00 PM

whoa. so now the protesters are just like the nazis. awesome.

multi-level thinking: free market (whatever that means) = good; government = bad.

#occupybv demand 8: BOLLYWOOD!!

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 1:18 PM

^ son, if yer gonna troll, at least put some effort into it. like I was telling your mom last night "you're really sucking it now"

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 1:37 PM

I had a buddy who was down there yesterday. Said that 90% of the crowd was college age kids. He is sympathetic to their cause, and he was disenchanted with their idiocy.

I believe that we have all failed these kids.

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 1:48 PM

1:48,

If you're going to represent the 99%, you are going to represent people who have a somewhat dim worldview. Most people aren't especially sophisticated, especially politically. But, despite that, people know injustice when they see it. Fully informed or not, people still have a right to speak their minds, and sometimes they'll even be right.

These protests aren't dealing with any single, simple issue. That's part of the problem. Our problems are so immense, so complex, and the average voter so poorly informed (often intentionally so), the process for addressing these problems is far beyond the grasp of most people. Many smart people believed Obama was the man for the job. He is not. He was our best shot at fixing the problem from within the system. Now it's time to take to the streets.

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 2:11 PM

no human is right for the job nor will their ever be. too many problems for humans to handle. it's just a matter of time till this empire falls.

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 4:10 PM

9:44-right on!

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 4:13 PM

2:11 - OMG you are totally delusional (do I have the right to speak my mind?).

"If you're going to represent the 99% ..."
They, you, none of you represent me, and I believe that I fall firmly within your straw man "99%" demographic. Stop saying you represent us! You don't!

"... you are going to represent people who have a somewhat dim worldview."
Gee, why would that be? Maybe because the government continues to print fiat money, devaluing our future and the future of our families by putting us into a financial hole that we can almost not escape from? The answer for that is simple - cut the government's bloated size and power. Step one is to revoke the license from the worst offenders - the entrenched Democrats and Republicans that propagate this big government lie. Then, revoke the "right" of the Federal Reserve to print money. Give them limited power to advise on monetary policy. While I was sitting here typing off the top of my head, I just came up with a more concrete plan - based on causality - than the ows thugs have even dreamed of.

"Most people aren't especially sophisticated, especially politically."
As opposed to yourself, I suppose (at least in your eyes)? Nah .. that one's too easy.

"But, despite that, people know injustice when they see it."
I agree. This is esactly what led to the Tea Party - the original in Boston Harbor, and later from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange

"Fully informed or not, people still have a right to speak their minds, and sometimes they'll even be right."
No argument there. So long as both side can extend the patience and respect to acknowledge and listen to what the other side has to say. We all live in a two-story house.

"These protests aren't dealing with any single, simple issue. That's part of the problem. Our problems are so immense, so complex, and the average voter so poorly informed (often intentionally so), the process for addressing these problems is far beyond the grasp of most people."
And you all, being the enlightened ones, are going to inflict us with your warped vision because we don'tknow any better? Nigga, PAH-LEEEZE!

"Many smart people believed Obama was the man for the job. He is not."
I agree with you here. Obama is the least qualified person in any room that he walks into.

"He was our best shot at fixing the problem from within the system. Now it's time to take to the streets."
He was so not the "best" or even an "adequate" shot at fixing anything (unless it is college transcripts, or other nefarious skullduggery).

The best shot is to flush the sewer of Washington out of all the institutionalized gluttonous bureaucrats, and elect citizen doctors, citizen plumbers, citizen police officers - even citizen anarchists! - to bring about a true, honest, full public discourse. And cut the federal government in half to start with. And get us FUCK out of Libya, and Iraq, and all the other countries we have no business being in.

And blow up the Fed.

Posted by Anonymous | October 6, 2011 4:19 PM

Wow. Just...wow. I'm blown away by the amount of conservatives there are on here on a hipster music blog (unless it's just 2 people tag-teaming). Shouldn't you be on a Kid Rock blog or something?
But seriously, I'm also blown away by how extreme everyone's views (particularly the conservative views) are. It sounds like everyone has been influenced too heavily by either FOX News on one side or MSNBC on the other.
Me personally, I find it hard to side with either, because anyone who is on either extreme side sounds like a moron. I have left views and right views, depending on the issue. Use your common sense, and your brains. A lot of what most of you people are saying are not making sense. Get your news from various sources.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:17 AM

"I agree with you here. Obama is the least qualified person in any room that he walks into."
A black man who came from nothing, got into Harvard, became a U.S. senator and then President of the U.S. is certainly more qualified in most rooms he walks into.
He's not perfect. He made mistakes (every President has). But he was handed a pile of shit and told to shine it up quick in 4 years (mind you, this was a piece of shit that most economists told us would take 8-10 years to fix). And then he had to shine up that piece of shit with his hands tied behind his back since the GOP/Tea Party took the house.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 7:41 AM

3:17 - we're not conservative, we are the broad middle, the Independents that are sick and tired of all this big government shenanigans. We seem like conservatives to you because you have been swung sooooo far to the left that Mickey Mouse looks like a conservative dog to you. You are the one that is reactionary, you are the outlier. ALL the polling data proves that - ALL OF IT!

Don't believe me after Nov 2010? Wait until Nov 2012.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 8:27 AM

^ sorry 3:17, I didn't read through your whole post (my bad). You obviously are struggling to make sense of all the junk too. A fellow traveler. However, being one myself that (as an Independent) am convinced that the federal government machine has misled us and taken us in the wrong direction, I feel the need to speak up against the reactionary Kool-Aid fueled propaganda that I now see all around me, even on postings on this blog.

And Fox News? I don't have cable television. The only reason I have a television is to watch movies once every few weeks. I spend most time working or playing guitar.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 8:31 AM

7:14, you poor little lamb, failure apologist. Just keep hoping that this straw will turn into gold and it has to, right?

"got into Harvard" as an Indonesian citizen. We all know that Harvard strives to be ethnically diverse. Don't believe me? Let's see the application. And the transcript - that may clear up some of this "smartest man" spin.

"But he was handed a pile of shit and told to shine it up quick in 4 years"
Ah, you said yourself that he was a Senator ... according to Civics 101 that makes him part of the legislative branch of government, that which is tasked with writing law, regulations, tax code, and budgets (that's how much money we spend, and where it goes, Einstein). In other words, this pile of shit that he did his part to help create, when he wasn't voting "present" that is.

"And then he had to shine up that piece of shit with his hands tied behind his back since the GOP/Tea Party took the house"
Political outsiders - citizens like you and me - took the House in an expression on how the vast majority of Americans feel, that this Democratic juggernaut was leading us in the wrong direction. And what happened is that they took the majority in the House - Senate is still Dem controlled. So, nobody's hands are tied behind anybody's back. There is a modicum more of accountability that this president expresses disdain for, as he does for any view that departs from his own. But that's what makes this country so great - we have to live with one another. You have to live with a majority that oppose your views and your vision. Get over yourself! And if you can't, get the fuck out of the way and let the grown ups drive.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 8:43 AM

^Who is this Indonesia citizen you are talking about and why does anyone care?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 9:06 AM

With the amount of people here talking about less gov't, I just need to understand. Perhaps you can answer these questions for me (and I'm being completely honest... if you can give me a logical and thoughtful explanation, I'd accept it).

In the last few years, we have seen
Enron
Tyco
Madoff
Subpar mortgages being sold easily and cheaply, and then packaged into financial instruments and being betted on like a casin0 game

How will less govt prevent these types of things from happening in the future? And how was it big govt's fault that these things happened?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 9:14 AM

Madoff has nothing to do w gov, big or small. he was a con man w a smooth line of shit who fleeced mostly very wealthy people. the " 1%" in today's parlance.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 9:29 AM

But wouldn't tougher regulation by the SEC (a govt agency) prevent something like the Madoff scandal from happening?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 9:39 AM

Clearly there needs to be a better answer to all our problems than "less government and less taxes, and everything will sort itself out".
History has shown that a completely free market economy with no regulations is flawed. And more recent history has shown that, thanks to advances in technology and quant trading, people can play games with the markets.
This is why people are out in the streets. It's just mind-boggling that after recent events (Madoff, Enron, Subprime mortgages), there's a movement (Tea Party)to put our trust and livelihoods in corporations' hands. The government is certainly not without flaws, and they need criticism and change for certain, but I don't think the simple answer is "less govt, less taxes".
This is common sense, folks.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:04 AM

To add to what i'm saying in 10:04, I'm not against capitalism, nor am I against reducing the size of government (or at least making it run more efficiently).

I just think there needs to be a balanced approach between the two.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:16 AM

@ 9:39

No, the regulations were already sufficient. The malfeasance WAS reported to the SEC. For whatever reason no action was taken until it was too late to recover the larger part of the money.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:17 AM

@ 9:39

It's akin to someone who works in a bank and steals an old lady's debit card. of course it's against the law, but if she is unaware of what's missing she doesn't know what's happening until she is completely cleaned out.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:24 AM

"there's a movement (Tea Party)to put our trust and livelihoods in corporations' hands."

I am really sick of seeing over and over again the Tea Party being misrepresented in this way. THIS is a straw man.

Maybe if you spent less time getting your information from Rachel Madow, Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews and spent more time actually reading independent, objective sources (not Mother Jones or Soros funded websites) you might not make such ignorant mischaracterizations that really do nothing but make you look the fool. And you do.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:32 AM

"Clearly there needs to be a better answer to all our problems than "less government and less taxes, and everything will sort itself out"."

And the OWS answer is ..... ?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:35 AM

"I am really sick of seeing over and over again the Tea Party being misrepresented in this way. THIS is a straw man."

I have no reason to believe otherwise, given that I have not seen one criticism of corporations/Wall Street abuse of the system from the Tea Party or anyone defending them on this blog. Nor have I seen any suggestions or possible solutions as to how reducing the size of government and/or lessening regulations on Wall Street is going to keep people honest on Wall Street.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:38 AM

"And the OWS answer is ..... ?"

I'm not representative of the OWS, but if I had to choose sides, quite frankly, I'd choose theirs.

I am not an expert, nor do I pretend to be. I just know that I am getting screwed, and I know who is screwing us. If you read anything that any economists (you know.. people who study the economy for a living) have been saying for the last few years, it's going to take more than less gov't, less taxes to fix this quagmire we are in.

And with all your spewing, you have yet to say how exactly less government and less regulation is going to keep people on Wall Street honest.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:46 AM

Can I apply your lack of response to the national debt, US monetary policy, and gross overspending as a straw man for your ineffective solutions for our issues too?

You really are not trying very hard. You are only looking for a fight.

You are not intellectually honest, and because of that I do not trust you or believe you. You have not convinced me of why you should be taken seriously.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:47 AM

You still haven't given a response as to how less government and less regulation is going to keep Wall Street honest. I'm waiting...

And pay attention, I never said that we shouldn't reduce spending. I said that there needs to be a balanced approach (see 10:16). My point is that none of the Tea Party folks on this blog are saying anything about how they are going to keep Wall Street/private sector from screwing up again.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:53 AM

It's going to take a whole lot less than "honest Wall Street" (whatever that is, and that's not even the "1% / 99%" argument which is the center of the ows "fairness" cause celeb, you fool) to solve the nation's financial troubles.

For one thing, less government will provide fewer places for contracts and public sector nepatism to be allowed. Fewer $20,00 hammers, less money wasted (that's what those people that study the economy say at least).

For another thing, less government will provide less of a budgetary drain at a time when we don't have the money to pay out. What is the first thing a responsible, profit based company does to reduce expenses in lean times? It cuts jobs. Not the government though. Instead, Queen Obama brings the kids to Afric for half a million dollars while BHO goes golfing. This should upset any thinking feeling person in America.

There is a whole lot more to the Tea Party proposals than just smaller government if you care to look. You have to do a little research though. Maybe you can ask your dad how to use the library on Saturday when mom drops you off in her Mercedes.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:55 AM

"You still haven't given a response as to how less government and less regulation is going to keep Wall Street honest. I'm waiting.."

You still haven't given a response to what if any ows solutions are designed to do anything but hang up traffic on bridges.

I'm waiting and I asked first. And if you try to change the subject I will keep coming back to this so that all who come back here to follow this thread know how aimless you are and that this is just about your "right" to bitch in the streets. That it's all about you.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:57 AM

"My point is that none of the Tea Party folks on this blog are saying anything about how they are going to keep Wall Street/private sector from screwing up again"

Oh, is that my job?

How would you do it?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:58 AM

lol more taxes solves everything lol lol

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 10:59 AM

@10:57 - you need to loose your attitude. it makes you seem irrational.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:00 AM

You're clearly missing my point. I'm with you in saying that the government wastes money. Less $20,000 hammers, I agree.

My point is that there's an even bigger problem than big government, that you're not addressing. It's big government attached to bigger Wall Street. Government is Wall Street's bitch. And you're not addressing that at all. And neither are any of the GOP candidates or anyone from the Tea Party that I've seen so far.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:02 AM

"Oh, is that my job?

How would you do it?"

Again, I'm no expert. But I know that loosening regulations (which is what most of the GOP candidates seem to be for), right after Wall Street just got finished playing casin0 games with packaged sub-prime mortgages, seems kinda foolish and seems like it's putting us even more in the wrong direction.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:07 AM

So what would you do?
Anyone can bitch and critize - how about some solutions?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:09 AM

C'mon now - this is your sacred cow, let's hear how you would change things ...

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:10 AM

"Well, I know that ..." is not a solution. It's a criticsm based on a political philosophy.

I want to hear solutions. I have heard some from ows folks, and everyone has run away from them.

If your movement is just going to sit in a park and bitch, it will die right quick.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:12 AM

I just got finished saying that I'm not an expert. What part of that sentence did you not understand? Was it the "not" or "expert"?

I don't know what the solution is. I just know that the solution is NOT to loosen regulations on Wall Street, which is what I see GOP and Tea Party folks advocating.

Nonetheless, as a non-expert, I can say that we need to get the corporations hands out of the Senators' pockets. Lobby reform.

We need to build infrastructure. Bridges falling = stopped commerce. Bridges building = people put to work.

We need to provide tax incentives to businesses who hire labor forces here, particularly in cities like Detroit.

We need to change tax code (not necessarily a direct percent raise in taxes, but a chnage in the code) that currently allows insanely rich people to unfairly pay a less percentage of taxes via loopholes than the rest of the 99%. And I disagree with the argument that raising capital gains taxes slightly would have any significant impact on money invested. People want profits, and they'll still be willing to invest for 1 or 2 points higher.

That's just a start.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:21 AM

I don't see anything from the Tea Party asking for lobby reform. I do see the Tea Party asking for less regulations on big business (at a time when Wall Street effed up severely).

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:36 AM

And furthermore.. I'm not representative of OWS. But if I had to choose sides, I'd choose theirs.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 11:43 AM

"Lobby reform" = yes Tea Party aligned, along with comprehensive campaign and government spending reform. and the removal of the whole institutional government "old boys (and girls)" that are beholden to special interests (corporations, labor unions, campaign contributors, etc.)

"build infrastructure" = you really are not well informed at all are you? no one aligned with the Tea Party would have refuted the need for infrastructure like bridges. However, this is not the basis for stimulating the economy or growing jobs, this is a common service that must be maintained (as all agree). Your inclusion of this here is a straw man, since no one has said "we should not build any bridges". Be real. Yes, Tea Party aligned.

"tax incentives to businesses who hire labor forces here"
How about the biggest tax incentive - creating actual jobs for people here by reforming (a) the current corrupt corporate tax system; (b) the current unrealistic regulatory climate (just because they are there doesn't mean they are correct, like the tax code); and (c) the litigious culture that has clogged up the courts with frivolous lawsuits (that detract from legitimate lawsuits) - tort reform. Tea Party aligned.

"We need to change tax code"
There are MANY tax reform proposals, on both sides of the isle. The Republicans (which I am not) usually involves making the code simpler, and the Democrats (which I am not) usually involves making the exiting code more granular and complex. The income situation is complex, but the tax code is unfair for all right now. I am not speaking for the Tea party, but I personally feel that if you are a citizen and you have the right to vote then you need to pay something. I have not heard a single compelling argument as to why a very large percentage of Americans pay nothing at all at the end of the day. To be fair, all should pay some. Those that are "rich" should pay more since they are making more, but the definition of "rich" in the current tax code (as defined by among other things AMT) is based upon statistics from the 1970s. I believe that the code should be simple and have very very few exemptions, for anyone. No more using the tax system to buy votes - if we are all in this together, then we all pay our fair share. If you do the math, and you were to apply a flat 20% income tax on all net income (wages, capital gains, rental properties, etc. after legitimate and well defined expenses) and you gave zero exemptions / credits but in return you communicated clearly and for all to have access to exactly how all that money is being spent, we would have the fairest system. Graduate percentage? That is a minor point that could be negotiated, but the every one pays / few exemptions bit is non-negotiable. Along with that, you don't pay taxes, you don't get to vote or own a house or car, or use the schools. Pretty simple.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 12:03 PM

Not so simple. Your proposal won't make a dent in the National Debt, Fund Medicare or Medicaid, or keep Social Security afloat. If the rich enjoy the collective benefits of living in the US they are going to have to pay more.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 12:46 PM

I am glad to see some dialog on a long thread instead of the usual MEME talk! Woot!

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 12:52 PM

Also I don't want the gov telling me how they spend MY tax $$$$$$$$$$$------I want to tell THEM how to spend my (our) money. elected representation is a FAILURE. I haven't sorted it all out yet but the idea of Direct Democracy seems more and more appealing.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 12:59 PM

12:46 - There needs to be a balanced approach. It's not just enough to tax the rich (although that needs to be done too). We need to bring our troops home, cut military spending, reform medicare/medicaid and SocSec.
Looking back, it seems crazy that under Bush we got into two wars and lowered taxes at the same time. How did he expect to pay for those wars? I'm assuming with the oil we were supposed to get from Iraq...

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 1:00 PM

Obama gets a bad rap for overspending. The reality is that most of the spending is for Medicare/Medicaid, SocSec, and the Military. 3 items that the govt is afraid to touch.

If Wall Stret hadn't been able to package sub-prime mortgage lending into financial instruments that they can play with like a craps table, the market wouldn't have taken a shit on Sept 2008.

If the market hadn't took a shit on Sept 2008, people would not have lost their jobs en masse.

If people hadn't lost jobs en masse, there would be more people paying taxes.

If there were more people paying taxes, the hole wouldn't be 15 trillion.

So how do we prevent Wall Street from screwing up again?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 1:09 PM

12:46 - "Your proposal won't make a dent in the National Debt, Fund Medicare or Medicaid, or keep Social Security afloat"
Sources? No sources, no basis for making such a statement. And, where is your alternative?

"If the rich enjoy the collective benefits of living in the US they are going to have to pay more"
If anybody does not pay any/virtually any taxes, they should not be entitled to enjoy the collective benefits of living in the US. Such as voting, or ownership of property.

12:59 - "elected representation is a FAILURE. I haven't sorted it all out yet but the idea of Direct Democracy seems more and more appealing."
There are plenty of other places on this great planet that practice an alternative form of government. Our founders with much toil deep thought and insight came up with a democratic republic by taking the best of classical Western examples. If you don't like it, (a) plenty of other places for you to live more comfortably within your values, and (b) I'll take the founders over your half-baked idea.

1:09 - "Obama gets a bad rap for overspending"
Have you analyzed the societal effects of the TARP spending? the Obamacare bill? The Congressional Budget Office disagrees with you. You are either grossly misinformed or you are just looking for controversy.

"If Wall Stret (sic) hadn't been able to package sub-prime mortgage lending into financial instruments that they can play with like a craps table, the market wouldn't have taken a shit on Sept 2008"
I know exactly what happened, but I am up for a laugh, so please - one more time - explain how the the whole sub-prime mortgage situation came about ... why did banks start lending such, why did the SEC not act, why was there a bubble and what laws were passed by the Democratically controlled congress at the time that may have helped / created the situation?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 1:29 PM

@1:09

You're right, but if people took better care of their own health (ie morbidly obese people in chicago- you listening Steve Albini?) it would be much less of a drain on the shitstem. Also don't forget there are tons of rotten, greedy doctors bilking Medicaid- Medicare.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 1:30 PM

1:30 - if everybody contributed 100% of all of their assets, rich and poor, as of today, we would not be able to pay down the debt.

If the patient is arterial bleeding, first you stop the source of the bleeding and then you start administering fresh blood. Right now, the bloated entrenched federal government is arterial bleeding our country to death, and new tax blood won't do a thing against that.

STOP THE BLEEDING!

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 1:34 PM

'Sources? No sources, no basis for making such a statement. And, where is your alternative?"


Just my opinion. Just as your comments are an opinion.

I wasn't aware this thread was part of a Congressional Fact Finding Committee.LOL.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 1:40 PM

"I know exactly what happened, but I am up for a laugh, so please - one more time - explain how the the whole sub-prime mortgage situation came about ... why did banks start lending such, why did the SEC not act, why was there a bubble and what laws were passed by the Democratically controlled congress at the time that may have helped / created the situation?"

But that's my point.. the government enables Wall Street. It is human nature for greed to persist when left unchecked.

I still have not heard any stance by the Tea Party to keep Wall Street in check to prevent stuff like this from happening.
And if you're going to make this a partisan argument, it was actually a Republican controlled congress that undid most of the Glass-Steagall act in 1999, which allowed all that to happen.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:11 PM

Do your homework, 1:29. Look up the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act. Passed by a Republican congress.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:23 PM

Not being partisan ... you should have read what I wrote earlier about throwing them all out, all the old dead wood.

"I still have not heard any stance by the Tea Party to keep Wall Street in check to prevent stuff like this from happening"

The Tea Party is not a political party. It is a loose confederation of people who share a common ideal. I'm not sure if you understand what the Tea Party is, and what if any "policies" it is advocating besides big government is the genesis of most / all of our problems.

You keep asking for a Tea Party policy, and yet you say that you are aligned / sympathetic to a movement that also does not have policies. And you don't see how I perceive you as just looking for a fight and not about seeking answers or looking for real solutions?

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:29 PM

2:23 - explain it to me in simple language, or you don't understand it enough to take such a condescending attitude.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:30 PM

2:23 - why don't you read this and learn something. it won't require you to make any philosophical inferences:
tiny url dot com / aflmea

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:39 PM

A huge portion of the increased mortgage loan defaults are what are referred to as ‘sub-prime’ loans. Most of the sub-prime loans have been made to borrowers with poor credit ratings, no down payment on the home financed, and/or no verification of income or assets (Alt-A’s). Close to 25% of sub-prime and Alt-A’s loans are in default.

These loans increased dramatically as a 9/30/99 New York Times article explained, “In a move that could help increase homeownership rates among minorities and low income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corp. is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.”

Why would banks make such risky loans? The answer is that the Clinton administration pressured the banks to help poor people become homeowners, a noble liberal idea. Also the Clinton Justice Department threatened banks with lawsuits and fines ($10,000 per application) for redlining (discrimination) if they did not make these loans. Also ACORN (Obama’s community service organization) was instrumental in providing borrowers and pressuring the banks to make these loans.

To allow Fannie Mae to make more loans, President Clinton also reduced Fannie Mae’s reserve requirement to 2.5%. That means it could purchase and/or guarantee $97.50 in mortgages for every $2.50 it had in equity to cover possible bad debts. If more than 2.5% of the loans go bad, the taxpayers (us) have to pay for them. That is what this bailout is all about. It is not the government paying the banks for the bad loans, it is us!!

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:41 PM

2:29 - If you were not being partisan, then what was the point of pointing out that it was a "Democratically controlled Congress" in the first place?

I understand what the Tea Party is all about. But it scares me that not one of the presidential candidates aligned with the Tea Party, nor any of the Tea Party aligned reps in our government have said one thing about keeping Wall Street in check, despite all that has happened in the last 12 years since the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act was passed. If anything, idiots like Michelle Bachmann have advocated even less regulation.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 2:43 PM

So I guess what I'm getting at here is.. while this may not be the case, the impression I'm getting from reading these posts is that the people who are criticizing OWS either ignore the fact that the sub-prime mortgage fiasco was a huge reason why we are in the shitpit we are in, or they believe that somehow the subprime fiasco was all caused by big government.
Somehow, reducing government will lessen the risk of things like that happening again. Wall Street was not at fault at all. No repercussions.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:07 PM

Personally I think that Fannie and Freddy should be defunded entirely - let them float and sink / swim based on their business decisions. This (Fannie / Freddy) is what happens when government interferes in areas that it either does not fully understand, or it has a partisan agenda to push at the expense of the rest of the population.

Then again, I also think that abortion (if it must occur) is not a right but a choice that I should not have to pay a red cent to help support. But, that is an argument for another day I think :-)

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:08 PM

3:07, you poor little lamb. read the tinurl link above please.
If the patient is bleeding, solve the source of the bleeding first. Then give the fresh blood.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:13 PM

I thought the Tea Party was just the political arm of the Koch brothers and their corporate agenda (i.e., greed!).

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:14 PM

"I understand what the Tea Party is all about."
I don't think that you do. Many mischaracterizations and broad simplifications in these posts.

I think that you need to go make friends with a Tea Party supporter. I have lots of OWS supporting friends and colleagues. I'm doing my part to understand the other side. I think you need to hear it from a person instead of Huff Post or wherever you are getting your understanding of the Tea Party.

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:15 PM

"I thought the Tea Party was just the political arm of the Koch brothers and their corporate agenda (i.e., greed!)."

Nice Story Bro

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:16 PM

I thought Occupy Wall St. was just the political arm of George Soros and his global agenda (i.e., control of the little serfs!).

Posted by Anonymous | October 7, 2011 3:25 PM

I'm trying to understand the Tea Party, but i have to say that its difficult, when I see idiots like Michelle Bachmann try to align herself with them.

Posted by Anonymous | October 8, 2011 10:15 AM

3:15 - I'm willing to try to understand. What I've gathered so far, is that at the core of it all, is that the philosophy is such that large government is wasteful, and that we are much better off if we let the competitive nature of pure unregulated captialism take care of things. Is this correct?
I've always had a problem with this philosophy because I subscribe to a more Keynesian approach.

Posted by Anonymous | October 8, 2011 3:07 PM

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