Entries tagged with: Kings of Leon
Morrissey / Modest Mouse / Run the Jewels / crowd
Back in 2012, the seemingly random location of Dover, Delaware got the new Firefly Music Festival, and it was instantly a success. This past weekend it wrapped up its fourth year, and this thing is more massive than ever. I mean for one, they got Paul McCartney to headline the Friday night (more on that here), and there may not be a bigger deal of a headliner on the planet than him. But Paul wasn't even the half of it. The grounds are huge, and they were packed all three days. To get an idea of the size, it sometimes took about 10-15 minutes to get from the Firefly Stage to the Lawn Stage -- the two that always seemed to have the biggest acts. Unfortunately this also meant it was often impossible to see a full set, the worst case for me being Morrissey straight into Modest Mouse straight into Paul on Friday. It meant I missed when Morrissey played "Meat Is Murder" with his graphic on-screen projections, and apparently sent a portion of the crowd away in disgust.
I'm not sure how many other people who missed that happen were bummed out though, because realistically, Morrissey isn't a main draw at a festival like this. The biggest and most hyped crowds I saw were for the EDM acts like White Panda and Zedd, or the current wave of festival-ready bands like Bastille and Walk the Moon. Those bands have this vaguely-alternative pop rock sound that's danceable, easy to digest, and full of a lot of whoa-ohs. It's pretty easy to see why that sort of thing does well on a major festival, but it's not too surprising that their fans don't want to hear angry songs about the meat industry.
Even if Morrissey didn't get the fists pumping though, he sounded great. When he and the band played "Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before," his voice sounded as rich as it does on Strangeways, Here We Come. And his stage presence isn't wild or anything, but he still managed to seem larger than life. Whether he was playing recent tunes like "World Peace Is None of Your Business" or classics like "Suedehead," his live show lived up to the expectations I had for someone as legendary as Moz.
Throughout the weekend, there were a few other artists avoiding the festival-pop trends too. Earlier on Friday on the same stage that Moz and Macca would play was Manchester Orchestra. I haven't loved a full album of theirs since the singer/songwriter-y indie rock of 2006's I'm Like a Virgin Losing a Child, but in the time since then they've basically transformed into a grunge band and they really pull it off live. In my opinion, the only thing holding back a song like "Top Notch" off last year's Cope is the production, but in a raw live setting those Headbanger's Ball-worthy jams live up to their full potential. And when M.O. do whip out the older ones like "I Can Barely Breathe" and "Where Have You Been?," they sound tighter than ever.
Modest Mouse were fantastic as always too. The only real conflict of the weekend for me was that they were up against Run the Jewels, but having seen RTJ five days earlier, I opted for the Mouse. We got a good amount of their new album, and they worked in old favorites towards the end, giving us a stretch of "Dramamine," "Doin' the Cockroach," "Float On," and "Dark Center of the Universe" all in a row.
Saturday the highlights were fewer for me, the biggest being Zola Jesus' set. She played at The Forest Stage, which is this cool small stage that's a little out of the way in comparison to the others. It gets its name as it's surrounded by a thick wooded area, which also makes it a nice way to escape the sun. Zola played to less than 100 people (the masses were gathered at the main stage for Matt & Kim), but she and her band brought a much welcome darkness to this festival. It was appropriate to have her on the shady stage. Her band (three men in all black clothing) were all business as Zola belted her powerhouse vocals, lurched around the stage, and at one point came up to the crowd and walked along the barrier. She left the stage abruptly after closing song "Vessel," and had the small but loving crowd yelling for an encore (no such luck).
Sunday had the hardest-rocking afternoon band I saw since Manchester Orchestra, Benjamin Booker. I didn't fully realize from his self-titled 2014 debut how rocking he is, or how he could be opening for Social Distortion and playing the punk/metal stage at Fun Fun Fun Fest later this year. But after seeing him live, I get it. He might smile and laugh a lot on stage, but when he and his band locked in for a feedback-y jam and then Benjamin ripped a string-bending solo, they were no joke.
The only artist I was excited to see that ended up being a disappointment was Snoop Dogg. Even though the guy's got countless songs dating back over 20 years, he spent the majority of his set essentially doing karaoke to other people's songs. Sure, it was fun when he got the huge crowd singing "I Love Rock and Roll" and "Jump Around," but it could've been anyone up there doing it. And a lot of the Snoop songs we did get were cut short. Things should go over better when he plays Doggystyle in full at Riot Fest.
Right after his set, I ended my weekend at The Killers. You might argue they're no better than the Bastille/Walk the Moon-type stuff I was talking about earlier, and sure they have some cheese in their sound. What bothers me about those bands though isn't their poppiness, it's that they all sound so anonymous. But "Mr. Brightside," "Somebody Told Me," "Smile Like You Mean It" and later hits like "When You Were Young" and "Human" are all bangers, and hearing all those songs at Firefly was a blast. Even their more recent, less banging songs pretty much sound like mid-'80s Bruce Springsteen, which was a refreshing change from the interchangeable festival-pop bands.
The Killers also did the Firefly crowd a favor by covering two songs by Kings of Leon, whose Saturday night set was cancelled due to lightning. And any classic rock fans hanging around were treated to a cover of Creedence Clearwater Revival's "Bad Moon Rising," which they pulled off surprisingly well. These guys are total rock stars and they clearly know it, but at least they do what they do really well. (Unlike Foster the People who I saw a day earlier with an open mind but just kept thinking ...what are they even doing?)
More Firefly pictures (including some from Thursday night, which I didn't attend) below. Paul McCartney wasn't allowing photos but we did get pics of him in Philly on Sunday.
photo: Paul McCartney in Austin, 2013 (more by Tim Griffin)
You may remember that when Firefly Music Fest announced its 2015 lineup, the first headliner was blurred out on the poster. Well, as rumored, it's Paul McCartney, the fest revealed today. Macca will join Morrissey, Modest Mouse, Spoon, Run The Jewels, How To Dress Well, Snoop Dogg, Tycho, Sturgill Simpson, Sylvan Esso, Zola Jesus, Rustie, Le1f and many more at the fest which happens June 18-21 at the Woodlands in Dover, DE. Updated lineup below.
General admission passes to Firefly go on sale Monday (3/2) at noon, EST.
McCartney was just in NYC for a surprise Valentine's Day show and an appearance on the SNL 40th Anniversary special. He since spent some time skiing in Vermont, much to the delight of the J.J. Hapgood General Store & Eatery in Peru.
Delaware's annual Firefly Music Festival comes back June 18-21 and the lineup's now been released. Kings of Leon, The Killers and
a TBA third act rumored to be Paul McCartney (update: it's Paul) sit atop the list, with Morrissey, Modest Mouse, Spoon, Run The Jewels, How To Dress Well, Snoop Dogg, Tycho, Sturgill Simpson, Sylvan Esso, Zola Jesus, Rustie, Le1f and many more joining them on the list of performers. Pre-sale passes are sold out, but more general admission and VIP passes will be available soon at the festival's website.
Firefly is Morrissey's first US date since canceling his dates last summer, and no other US dates are announced yet.
Check out Firefly's full lineup below...
Made In America 2014 Philly (via Stephanie Pratt)
It would have been ironic if Kings of Leon didn't get to headline Made in America fest in Philly over Labor Day weekend. They cancelled a bunch of dates leading up the fest due to injury, but promised to be better in time for the Philadelphia show. Luckily (for Kings of Leon fans), they did get to play, despite the fest almost pulling an Electric Zoo and shutting down due to rain on Sunday.
Made in America kicked everyone out around 6:30pm on Sunday, but were letting everyone back in an hour later. Spoon, Girl Talk, Pharrell, Gareth Emory, Tiesto, and Kings of Leon all still got to play, though with slightly different set times than originally planned.
Did you go to Made In America Philly (or LA) this year? How was it?
Watch a video of Kanye's full set from the first day of the festival, below...
After cancelling a bunch of dates, including Jones Beach, Kings of Leon have cancelled even more including tonight's show in NJ at PNC Bank Arts Center. They still do plan to play Made In America in Philly over the weekend though. Read their latest message in full, below...
Kings of Leon at ACL Fest 2013 (more by Dana (distortion) Yavin)
Bad news from Kings of Leon...
Due to an injury that Nathan Followill sustained over the weekend in a tour bus accident, Kings of Leon will unfortunately have to cancel all shows over the next two weeks. Nathan is on strict doctor's orders to rest before the band can pick back up on the Mechanical Bull Tour.The affected dates include this Wednesday's (8/13) Jones Beach show (the second time they've cancelled a Jones Beach show) and most other August stops, though as mentioned above, they'll be back for their NYC-area show at NJ's PNC Bank Arts Center (for now anyway). Their Fallon performance, scheduled to air tonight, is still on though. Questlove will be filling in on drums. Refunds for the cancelled shows will be available at point of purchase.
Dr. Faiz Bhora, Chief of Thoracic Surgery at Mount Sinai Roosevelt says, "The process is now to rest in order for healing to take place. To avoid complications and to make a full recovery, a break from performing to August 28th is necessary."
The band will return to the road on August 28th to take the stage at PNC Bank Arts Center in Holmdel, NJ.
As previously mentioned, Jay Z is throwing his Budweiser Made In America Festival in Philly and LA this year, simultaneously on August 30-31. The lineup for Philly has just been announced and includes Kanye West and Kings of Leon as headliners, plus The National, Pharrell, J. Cole, Girl Talk, Spoon, Chromeo, Grimes, De La Soul, Baauer, Danny Brown, YG, Holy Ghost and more. Full lineup below.
UPDATE: The LA lineup was also announced and it includes headliners Imagine Dragons and John Mayer plus Kendrick Lamar, Weezer, Metric, Chance the Rapper, Cypress Hill, Schoolboy Q, YG, Dr. Dog, Ab-Soul, Isaiah Rashad, Jay Rock, SZA and more. Full lineup below.
2-day passes for both fests are on sale now.
Kings of Leon and Young the Giant are playing Nikon at Jones Beach Theater on August 13 and PNC Bank Arts Center on August 28. Tickets for those shows go on sale today at 10 AM.
Tickets to the Wiz Khalifa, Jeezy, Tyga, Ty Dolla $ign, Riche Homie Quan, Sage the Gemini, IAMSU! and DJ Drama shows at Jones Beach and PNC Bank Arts Center go on sale today at
10 AM. Despite what was listed on Live Nation, they actually go on sale at 4:20 PM.
Browse our 'Tickets On Sale' tag for more recently announced NYC shows.
Lollapalooza 2014, which goes down from August 1-3 in Chicago, announced its 2014 lineup. Artists include Eminem, Outkast, Kings of Leon, Arctic Monekys, Skrilex, Broken Bells and tons more. 3-day passes are sold out, but single day tickets go on sale today at 10 AM.
Full lineup below...
Janelle Monae at The Apollo in 2013 (more by Luis Ruiz)
VH1 is presenting the Super Bowl Blitz Concert Series which features J. Cole at Queens College on 1/27 followed by Janelle Monae at Lehman College on 1/28, and then TLC at Beacon Theatre on 1/30, in addition to concerts by Fall Out Boy, Goo Goo Dolls, and Gavin DeGraw. Tickets for the J. Cole show go on sale today (1/10) at noon. Ticket info for the Janelle Monae and TLC shows TBA, so stay tuned. Full schedule for the concert series below.
The J. Cole show happens one day before his previously announced tour hits the Theatre at MSG (1/28), which now appears sold out.
There's also another Super Bowl concert presented by Time Warner Cable Studios happening at the Highline Stages from January 27 to February 1. Those include Fox Sports 1's Thursday Night Super Bash with Kings of Leon on 1/30 and one hosted by Diddy's Revolt TV on 2/1 with Drake and Diddy. Head here for more information and a chance to gain entry to these shows.
VH1 concert series schedule below...
Haim just made their SNL debut over the weekend, playing "Don't Save Me" and "The Wire," as well as appearing in a sketch that uses The Outfield's mega-'80s hit "Your Love" in a pretty funny way. It was a highlight of an especially lackluster episode of SNL, and you can watch all three clips in this post. Since their appearance, Este Haim's "bass face" -- already an internet meme -- is now full-on sensation, perhaps you've seen it on your Facebook timeline via every one of your friends.
In other news, both of Haim's Terminal 5 shows in May -- including the second show which was just added -- are sold out.
Meanwhile, Saturday Night Live has announced the hosts and musical guests from the remainder of 2013 which looks hopeful on the funny front: Paul Rudd hosts on December 7 with a second appearance from UK boy band One Direction; and John Goodman returns for his 13th hosting job with Kings of Leon as musical guests.
Then on December 21, SNL gifts us with what will be the year's most anticipated show: Jimmy Fallon will host with (surprise!) Justin Timberlake performing. SNL writers usually bring their A-game to a JT episode (expect a return of the Brothers Gibb), and this one will also be a way to remind folks that in the new year, Jimmy Fallon will be moving to The Tonight Show and current "Weekend Update" anchor Seth Meyers will becoming the new Late Night, both of whom will start their new jobs on February 24.
Haim's SNL performances and that Outfield sketch below...
photos by Ryan Muir
Gary Clark Jr. @ Terminal 5 - 11/16/13
Classic-style blues guitarist Gary Clark Jr. continues to move up in the world, having just brought his tour to NYC for sold-out shows at the legendary Apollo Theater last Thursday (11/14) and the big Terminal 5 on Saturday (11/16). At the T5 show, in addition to playing almost all of his his 2012 LP, Blak and Blu, he also covered a few of the legendary bluesmen who inspired him, including BB King, Albert Collins, Albert King, Robert Petway, and Leroy Carr. Pictures of that show, including openers Max Frost and Wild Feathers, are in this post.
There's a few dates left on Gary's current tour, and in 2014 he'll return to the road to support another band who likes blues, Kings of Leon. As discussed, KoL's tour hits NYC on February 14 at MSG.Tickets for that show are still available (but "not many left").
Updated dates are listed, along with more pics, a video and the setlist from T5, below...
Alex Turner doing an ELVIS IMPERSONATION??? (more by Tim Griffin)
LA radio station KROQ is doing its annual Almost Acoustic Christmas from December 7-8 at LA's Shrine Auditorium. The lineup for day 1 was just announced, and it includes Queens of the Stone Age, Arctic Monkeys, Vampire Weekend, Foals and more. Tickets for day 1 go on sale Friday (11/8) at noon. Full day 1 lineup below.
In related news, Arctic Monkeys, Foals and Vampire Weekend were all among the winners at the 2013 Q Awards. Arctic Monkeys won 'Best Track' for "Do I Wanna Know?" and Foals and Vampire Weekend won for 'Best Live Act' and 'Best Act In The World Today,' respectively.
There was some drama at the ceremony though, as it certainly sounded like Foals took a stab at Arctic Monkeys (via NME). Upon receiving their award, Foals' Yannis Phillippakis said, ""It shows you don't need a backing track, you don't need affectation, you don't need Elvis Presley impersonations." As NME points out, it seems pretty obvious that he was talking about Alex Turner with the Elvis impersonations bit.
Meanwhile, Vampire Weekend just had to cancel some European dates.
Full KROQ Almost Acoustic Christmas day 1 lineup below...
Kings of Leon @ ACL 2013 (more by Dana [distortion] Yavin)
Southern-fried garage-rockers-turned-arena-stars Kings of Leon released their new album, Mechanical Bull, back in September. Last night (10/24) the band stopped by Jimmy Kimmel Live and played two songs off the record -- "Supersoaker" and "Temple" -- and you can watch that below.
The Followill brothers will be touring Mechanical Bull in early 2014, hitting NYC at Madison Square Garden on February 14. Tickets for that show go on sale Friday, November 1. All dates are listed below.
photos by Dana (distortion) Yavin
The Cure / Kendrick Lamar / Passion Pit
Opening with a sluggish "Plainsong," the band - led, as always, by founder Robert Smith - scanned tentative, with a chunky and worn-looking Smith seeming particularly unhappy. Yet the Cure founder emoted the follow-up "Pictures of You," and by the time the band hit "Lullaby," the entire group was more animated. Momentum established, the Cure could do no wrong.Austin's 2013 ACL Festival kicked off on Friday (10/4), its first day of two consecutive weekends, and continued on Saturday (10/5). Day 2 gave us sets from The Cure, Kendrick Lamar, Wilco, Passion Pit, Haim and more. Pictures from the second day of the fest are in this post, and there's another set at BV Austin.
Loosely dividing the concert into thirds, the band spent the first part on hits both massive and missed, from the jangly "High" and moody "Lovesong" to the funky "The Walk" and brooding "Fascination Street." A buoyant "Just Like Heaven" indicated the band isn't burned out on its biggest hit yet. [Austin Chronicle]
The festival's first weekend wraps up today (10/6) with sets from Atoms for Peace, The National, Phoenix, and more. Then it all happens again next week (10/11-10/13). If you haven't been keeping up with our coverage, check out pics of day 1 here and more here.
Update: Day 3 pics are up now.
More day 2 pics below...
A year after names like Neil Young, Foo Fighters, The Black Keys, and others took to Central Park, Global Festival (not to be confused with the Global Fest which hit Webster Hall last year) is back, this time rechristening itself Global Citizen Fest.
The free, ticketed festival will go down on the great lawn at Central Park on September 28, and featurea the incomparable Stevie Wonder along with Kings of Leon, Alicia Keys and John Mayer. The show will be held in coordination with the meeting of the United Nations General Assembly, the goal being to "to give world leaders a clear mandate to end extreme poverty by 2030." Be selfish and selfless in one fell swoop by earning points toward a free ticket by signing up for the movement and taking action against poverty. Details are on the Global Citizen website.
photos by Dana (distortion) Yavin, words by Andrew Sacher
Fucked Up / Guns N Roses / Azealia Banks
We just posted pictures of day 2 (6/8) of NYC festival Governors Ball, which went down on Randall's Island this weekend, and here's more in this post. This time, we've got shots of Guns N' Roses, Animal Collective (who rival Kanye West for best light show of the festival), Cut Copy, Fucked Up and more.
Fucked Up's set was one of the craziest at the festival. Damien performed in the crowd and on the barrier as usual, but due to Friday's weather, this was by far the messiest I've ever seen it get. He was covered in mud, sweat, and beer by song 2 and so was a huge chunk of the crowd, who didn't let the swampy ground stop them from breaking out into a mosh pit. The set included the usual live favorites, "Son The Father," "Turn The Season, "I Hate Summer," etc, a rant about marijuana, and a tons of comments about how grateful they were for their fans. One of the best Fucked Up shows I've seen yet.
Cut Copy debuted a new song, "Explorers," earlier this week on tour (via Consequence of Sound). You can watch a video of that below.
photos by Dana (distortion) Yavin
Fiest in the rain / casualty of storm / making the best of it @ Governors Ball on Friday
Yesterday's unrelenting rain made for a cold, soggy start to Governors Ball. Feist gave up after one song, saying "I think they think we're going to get electrocuted." Festival organizers then pulled the plug on the night:
Due to the high winds and unsafe stage conditions, Governors Ball has been suspended Friday night. The Current wind speeds have made it a safety issue to operate the stages. While Governors Ball and the acts would like for nothing more than the show to go on, the safety of our patrons, performers, and staff must always come first. Governors Ball will continue as scheduled Saturday morning. We anticipate gates to open on schedule. We are looking forward to great music and good times for the rest of the weekend.Good news for fans of Friday night headliners King of Leon, the band will play the main stage today at 6:45 PM. Obviously this will affect some of the other band's set times and you can see the revised schedule for details.The weather's a whole lot nicer today, but those mudpits probably won't be going anywhere. Look for a full recap and pictures of waterlogged Friday
In other news, Kings of Leon just announced their new album, Mechanical Bull, will be out September 24.
Grizzly Bear in Austin in April (more by Tim Griffin)
The festival goes down on Randall's Island this weekend (6/7-9). We also just made a Spotify playlist of many of the artists we're excited to see this weekend. Listen to that below or on Spotify. Full Governors Ball schedule is also below...
Kanye West in Sweden in 2011 (more)
NYC festival Governors Ball is totally sold out of regular tickets, but if you weren't able to get yours and still want to go, there are still a few options. From now until Monday (5/27) at 11:59 PM, you can enter the Governors Ball Ticket Lottery. Entering the lottery gives you a chance to be selected to purchase either a 3-day pass or a single day ticket. More details on how the lottery works below.
Ticket lottery details and festival set times below...
Deerhunter at Austin Psych Fest 2013 (more by Tim Griffin)
Governors Ball is less than a month away, and the fest has now released the daily schedule. They've done a pretty good job with not too many giant conflicts -- though there's a few like Grizzly Bear vs Beirut, Bloc Party vs The xx, Erykah Badu vs Beach House, and Nas vs Guns N Roses. Check out the daily line-ups across their four stages below.
Governor's Ball 2012 (more by Amanda Hatfield)
As mentioned, single day tickets to Governor's Ball went on sale today and with that, comes their day-by-day lineups, featuring headliners Kings of Leon (6/7), Guns N Roses (6/8) and Kanye West (6/9). Complete daily line-ups are below.
Governors Ball, which started as a small NYC festival on Governors Island and moved to the larger Randall's Island last year, keeps getting bigger and bigger. This year's fest takes place June 7th, 8th & 9th, and tickets go on sale Friday. Check out the full lineup, in list, video and flyer format - one unannounced headliner included, below...
Band of Horses in Toronto in 2010 (more)
As you may have heard, Caleb Followill of Kings of Leon walked off stage at their show in Dallas, TX on Friday (7/29) after saying he was going to go backstage, vomit, and return for three more songs.
"While KoL's fans stood in the dead heat, precious Caleb was carried off to his all-white dressing room where slaves hand fed him Evian ice cubes and fanned him with swan feathers while spritzing his face with 60º Perrier from a crystal bottle." [Dlisted]Caleb never returned and Jared Followill then told the crowd, "I don't know what to say. It's not our fault. It's Caleb. He can't play." Jared then tweeted, "Dallas, I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am. There are internal sicknesses & problems that have needed to be addressed. No words." Jared again tweeted, admitting, "I love our fans so much. I know you guys aren't stupid. I can't lie. There are problems in our band bigger than not drinking enough Gatorade." The band continued to cancel their next two shows, both Saturday (7/30) and Sunday (7/31). Since canceling those dates, the band have gone on to cancel the rest of their entire tour, which was with Band of Horses.
A message on KoL's website reads:
We are so sorry to say Kings of Leon are canceling their entire US tour due to Caleb Followill suffering from vocal issues and exhaustion. The band is devastated, but in order to give their fans the shows they deserve, they need to take this break. Unfortunately, the US dates cannot be rescheduled due to the band's international tour schedule. Tickets will be refunded at point of purchase. Tickets purchased online or via phones will be automatically refunded. The band will resume touring in Canada at the Rogers Center in Vancouver, BC, on September 28th. That show was originally schedule for September 14th.The cancelled shows include Nikon at Jones Beach Theater on August 10 and PNC Bank Arts Center on August 17. According to Ticketmaster/Livenation, any tickets purchased by Ticketmaster Charge-By-Phone or Ticketmaster.com will be automatically credited back to the card used to order them. All tickets purchased at the box office or a Ticketmaster Ticket Center must be returned to the point of purchase to receive a refund.
Nathan Followill confirmed it's just a break and not a breakup, when he tweeted "Bummed about the tour not happening. So sorry 4 all the fans. We just need some rest. Thanks 4 understanding. WE ARE NOT BREAKING UP!" Despite the fact that the band reports the tour was cancelled so Caleb could rest his voice, US Weekly reports that a source tells them his bandmates are urging him to go to rehab. The source says Caleb "drinks like a fish."
Fortunately, Band of Horses are working on scheduling some club dates to make up for the cancelled tour. They wrote on their facebook:
Hey there Friends Of BoH! First off, we're sorry for the lag on updating everyone. We're thrilled by all the support you're showing us, and have been working behind the scenes to do everything we can to come see you. Unfortunately, we won't be able to hit up all of the places we'd planned on visiting with Kings of Leon. BUT!!! We're happy to announce that we're going to play SOME SHOWS!!!The new dates include a show at Hammerstein Ballroom on August 10 (which is at least way better than Jones Beach). Tickets for the NYC show go on sale Friday (8/5) at noon.
We're playing FT. LAUDERDALE AND CHARLOTTE THIS WEEK! Details are below. We're working on adding more, and will have another update very soon.
We would like to thank Kings Of Leon for the opportunity to play the shows we did, and wish them all the best.
p.s. We're hoping to provide a special treat to the fans coming out to these new dates. Stay tuned and thank you!
BoH also wants you to help them pick their setlists for the new shows. Because they had planned on playing shorter sets of their more popular songs on the Kings of Leon tour, they now have time to play some of their lesser known cuts. Check out the list of songs to choose from and more details on how to submit your choices at their facebook.
Video of Caleb speaking throughout the Dallas show and ending with Jared's apology, and Band of Horses dates below...