Interview: Parquet Courts’ Sean Yeaton talks about the band’s dancey new album ‘Sympathy for Life’
Parquet Courts have dabbled in dance music before -- like on the title track to their 2018 album Wide Awake! and -- but the band's seventh album, Sympathy for Life, is the NYC band's most rhythm-oriented record to date, pulling inspiration from Talking Heads, Primal Scream and other groups who mix rock and groove. They haven't entirely abandoned their punkier side -- the ripper count on Sympathy for life is actually pretty high -- but electronics figure into most of the album.
To help them achieve this, the band worked with two very different producers. Most of the album was made with Rodaidh McDonald, known for twiddling knobs on records by The xx, Hot Chip, David Byrne, and more; while two of the album's most affecting songs, the title track and album-closer "Pulcinella," were made with John Parish (PJ Harvey, Aldous Harding, and Dry Cleaning) at Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios in Bath, England. Despite different styles and collaborators, Sympathy For Life is cohesive and still sounds like the band that gave us Light Up Gold.
Just ahead of the album's release, I chatted with bassist Sean Yeaton about the new album, working with McDonald and Parrish, his progression as a musician and what influences he's brought to the new record, and the parallels between Sympathy for Life and Parquet Courts' first album, American Specialties (which turned 10 this year). We also talked about making the record just as the pandemic hit, lockdown's effect on the album, their first live show since, and opening for Portugal. The Man at Colorado's iconic Red Rocks Amphitheater. Plus: anxiety dreams, Scott Walker, and Yeaton's collaboration with Joel Ford, Tight Ferrari. Read our conversation below.
First question I have is, when did you actually make this record?
Well, historically we've been an album-a-year kind of band, and then obviously a couple of years have been kind of just thrown into the chaos, spiral of time and space, or whatever. I barely remember when we started. We started it in, I think, I want to say November 2019, but we finished recording all of everything that we thought we could, around March 2020. We were in England, and we were all getting texts about how we better get home soon, because it seemed like everything was going to shut down. And we were just like, "What?" And then, the next thing you know, I think it was four or five days after we got back from England, that everything shut down. And then we finished recording -- I did backing vocals and overdubs, at my house, and I think everybody else did, too. I want to say by the middle of April 2020, we were done with the album, or it was at the point where it was off getting mixed and mastered. But I think that, had everything gone to plan and otherwise, in a regular reality, we probably would have already toured this album, and done another one by now.
That makes sense, given who you worked with and where you made it but I wasn't sure if it was done pre COVID or post lockdown.
That's the other thing. We had developed this kind of rhythm of how we were able to tour as much as we did, but also release a full length every year, so that we could keep going. Obviously the only thing that really stopped that this time around, was the pandemic. But we had certainly started writing this record, and got finished recording it. I would call it, I would say we were done, pre pandemic. But then, so much of doing overdubs, and stuff like that, became informed by this bizarre new lockdown situation that... I mean, I can't speak necessarily to all of the lyrics, but there are so many that I know were written before the pandemic, that seem to resonate now and feel kind of weirdly, post-pandemic.
At what point did you all decide that it wouldn't be a 2020 record, and it would be a 2021 record?
It mainly became a matter of uncertainty. There are so many artists whose touring plans got disrupted by COVID, and we kind of I think lucked out, in the sense that we were at the point in our recording process for this new album where we were able to have enough time to decide, "Okay, well, we're not going to be able to go on tour for this record in the way that we would want to, or the way that we would have normally. So why don't we just take the time to spend more time making sure that when it does come out and we can go back on tour, that that can be all that it can be." We've always been a live band. We've always had our records come out and be part of a bigger touring schedule. And so much of the Parquet Courts experience is that, we have these albums, but I think that the way that we perform the songs live has always become kind of their own thing. So when we realized we probably wouldn't be able to get together to work on more music together, since we all four of us lived away from each other, anyway, we just sort of looked at our options, and we were like, "You know what? Let's just make it as good as we possibly can, so that when we can play out again, it's really, really dope."
Did the whole nightmare of vinyl production, the crazy wait to get records pressed, figure into it, too?
I was going to say that. I didn't know how deep into it we were going to go, but that is definitely a huge part of it. That has been an issue before anyway. It's almost like an air traffic control kind of thing where it will be like, "All right, well, you're on the flight path to have your, however many, LPs pressed by this date." But then inevitably, something will happen -- either a bigger artist or somebody with more, I don't know, more connections, I don't know how this works -- where it's like, "Actually, your release date has to be bumped, to this time." Stuff like that. And I think that many artists at our kind of whatever status, run into that experience a lot. We certainly have, and that was definitely amplified by COVID, I think, because a lot of artists decided to sort of do the opposite of what we did, I think. Or maybe they didn't necessarily have a choice, but I think that it became a matter of, suddenly a ton of records were either put on hold for as long as possible, even if it was only a couple weeks or a couple months, but then it was, these pressing plants have to keep going too, so that jumbled things up.
Obviously, it affected tour dates, too. You'd be in a similar kind of holding pattern, where it's like, "Okay, so maybe you had this venue booked out for this date, which obviously isn't going to happen, so you're starting from the top again," and it becomes first come, first served. So it was a total, like a cluster fuck, obviously, but now I'm really stoked, because I've heard that actual physical copies of this record have arrived at the Rough Trade office. So I just can't wait to hold it in my hands, I think it will be pretty cool.
I'm excited to see the actual physical packaging of it, which seems like it's another great job by Andrew.
Andrew, always killing it, man. I'm stoked, it's crazy. I've always been in a band where one of the members of the band does the art for the band. And, I haven't been in a million bands or anything, but the three or four I have been in, I think that's the kind of thing that's easy to take for granted, especially when you've got someone at Andrew's level, where you're just kind of like, "Damn, you're just like, an actual fucking fine artist." Andrew will give us an idea as to what his art direction is going to be, obviously, and we're part of the initial process of that, but I've always enjoyed having the surprise of holding it in my hands. It's sort of like having a family member give you a photo album or something and be like, "Oh, fuck. He put so much thought into this. " Obviously it a huge testament to how talented Andrew is, as an artist, but also for us in the band and whatnot, there are always little moments in there that feel like he's taken everybody into consideration.
As far as with the new record, you guys are getting funkier, dancier this time around. And there was elements of that on Wide Awake!, I think, but this time you are exploring it more. The press release for the album mentions Primal Scream as influence, but was this a conscious decision or just a natural progression?
I think that it was definitely a natural progression. I've been thinking a ton about the very first Parquet Courts recording we ever did, American Specialties. Andrew was the only person that knew all of us. I'd never even played bass before, ever. And so, it was one of those things where he had, I had known him from a previous band that had toured with one of his previous bands, and he moved to New York and was like, "Hey, you want to hang out and do this thing?" And I was kind of like, "Sure." And I looked at it as like, "Oh, bass? I'm a guitar player, so how hard could a bass be?" And then, it was just really interesting because that process of doing the American Specialties stuff, it was also us initially sort of getting to know each other. Andrew had sent out an email to me, Max and Austin just saying, "Hey, why don't you all put together a playlist of music that you're into right now, or music that you would be interested in drawing inspiration from, if we start this little band," or whatever. I wish I could find that original email. I think we combined all of those playlists together and made some sort of Bandcamp playlist thing. I remembered, this was so many years ago, but it was kind of our "Debutante" kind of thing. "This is who we're going to be," or whatever.
It was also a way the four of you could know more about each other.
Yeah, like the way you would with any friend or crush, or something. It's just like, "Here's music, to let you know who I am," or something. And that process, almost exactly down even to making playlists and sharing them with each other, it's exactly how we did this album too. And we've, of course, been playing for over 10 years together and have spent more time together than the four of us have spent with any other people. And it's just interesting, because now we do know each other and we know each other really well, through good and bad.
It feels very full-circle.
But It wasn't like we were, "Oh, let's throw back to our first-ever release," even though it did get a cool reissue this year, that almost kind of came out of us realizing how similar the process was. And it was really exciting. But that all being said, with this band it's almost never just kind of a plotted out trajectory or anything. In fact, if anything, our goal is always to kind of... We are always communicating with each other about music that we're into, even when we're not on tour, even if we're not hanging out or whatever. Our group chat is always sending songs around and stuff. And it's interesting because, we also have these four separate lives. I have two kids and live in suburban Pennsylvania. Max is in DC. Andrew and Austin live in New York, but their lives are pretty different. Unless we're on tour together, there's no way we're going to hang out. And so, it was just kind of interesting because yeah, whenever we get to the point where we're working on a new record or whatever, it's usually pretty deep into the process before we develop any kind of general vision. The Screamadelica thing, I think, is a really good reference because, we did have the opportunity to collaborate with some producers. And we had really started the process of working with a producer, on Wide Awake!, and we enjoyed that process enough, such that we of sought out the opportunity to do it again with John Parrish and Rodaidh McDonald. Those two are so different in the way that they approach being a producer, but it's so exciting to include somebody else into that process who's got as much of a say in it as the rest of us. In fact, it also kind of takes a certain amount of pressure off. So whenever we realized we wanted to work with John and Rodaidh, it almost became starting to imagine, "What a weird challenge, these two producers who we really admire, but are doing totally different things. What kind of album will that create?" And I think that, that, if anything was sort of the challenge that we set for ourselves. And then the final product, in hindsight, and seeing how it ultimately all went, is kind of what happened.
So the more dancier stuff just happened in that way.
We're never necessarily saying, "Let's make stuff more dance-y, or let's do stuff this way or that way." We're just kind of, if anything, we get to the process of trying out new techniques for writing music together. Like American Specialties, as an example. So much of that was jamming, or just basically, improvising together. So much so that, our very first shows as Parquet Courts, we didn't have any songs. It was just sort of us trying to figure out how to play together. That process is something that maybe it isn't as obvious when you listen to it -- I'm not even entirely sure how important it is for anybody to know about -- but the process of kind of improvising parts, sections, or entire songs is something that we felt like, on this album, we got really good at. And it's not like every song is improvised or whatever, but I would say that on every song, there is an element of us just losing ourselves in the studio and figuring out, trying to get more creative with how to solve problems within each song that will improve it, improvising the solutions.
I want to talk a little bit more about that, but before I forget. I want to know if you remember any of the songs that you contributed to that initial playlist, and songs you contributed to the playlist for this record?
Oh, man. So, so for the initial one, man, I really... I'll tell you what, I know that there is one song that I can remember contributing, two songs maybe, that I can remember being on there for sure. That I still think of as being massively influential to the Parquet Courts' songs, writing and sound style or whatever. And one of them is "Taking Tiger Mountain" by Eno, the song. And the other one is this song called "Queen Street Gang" by Arzachel. I remember 'cause it was a deep cut, and I remember at the time being really into... And it's so good. "Queen Street Gang." Dude, you got to check this song out, if you haven't heard it. I'm sure there was Roxy Music on there. I'm certain there was Sonic Youth on there. I'm sure all of that, I'm sure Pavement was on there, all this stuff. I'm trying to think back to the shit people said we sounded exactly like, back in the beginning.
Ha, right. I was one of those people.
I'm not even going to try to deny that those artists didn't show up on there. But yeah, those two songs in particular stick out to me, because I still find myself listening to them. I mean, I can't get enough obviously, I basically feel like, Brian Eno is just my alarm clock, my waking compass of some kind.
And what about for the playlist you all made for Sympathy for Life?
I actually have this playlist on my phone right now. I took a look and... Okay. So the number one, so for me, I'm just going to read you the first... So strange. Fuck it. I'm going to read you the first handful of songs that I put on this playlist, but it's honestly pretty long. The first is "Closer" by Codec. And "Go Bang," the Francois K mix, that Dinosaur L song. "Class Action," by Weekend, which is an insane song which I'm obsessed with. And then I've also got "Strangers" by The Kinks and "Gotta Get Up" by Harry Nilsson on there."Lay My Love" by Eno / Cale, it just kind of keeps going. There's a lot of good bass lines on here, obviously. It's also got weird Mothers of Invention songs, stuff from Only in It for the Money. And then, what's another really... So much Cale on here. It's funny. And then, but weirdly, Scott Walker. I mean, a lot of it for me ended up becoming, I mean, I can definitely tell where some of the things kind of worked their way in there, influence-wise. But that's only one of the four of us. I don't even have the other dudes' playlists anymore.
The Scott Walker song, is it from one of the first four records?
Yeah. I put "It's Raining Today" on there, but I wonder why. Part of me is always just kind of, with that song in particular, if somebody gives me an excuse to make a playlist, that one always just winds up on there. Mainly because of I'm so fascinated as to what exactly the technique is that's going on, to make it sound the way that it does. I'm not a classically trained musician or anything, by any stretch of the imagination. And I would go as far as to say that there are probably people out there, at any moment, almost any musician has a better understanding of music than I do. But I literally Googled, "How did they make that song sound like that? How is it scary and happy, at the same time?"
It's an eerie song.
I was going to say also though, one of the Scott Walker songs from the Sunn O))) split is on there, too. That weird one that he did, with Sunn O)))? I'm not sure all these influences make an exact impact on the sound of this album. Maybe some of them. I did definitely develop an obsession with just kind of atonality and weird sound. It's funny, when I was younger, I grew up listening to hardcore and punk music. I was always a hardcore guy, and when that band Daughters came back, in the last couple of years, I remember being like, "Oh shit, Daughters. I remember them from White Belt screamo days." Since I was a teenager. I didn't even realize that they were back, and I listened to their new shit and I was like, "Oh my God, I love this. I love it" -- but for the same sort of reason that I love "It's Raining Today." I've read interviews with Lex and stuff, where he talks about being pretty inspired by Scott Walker, too. I don't know how this even contributes to any of the questions you're asking me, but, I am a guy who likes weirder stuff and if you're a Daughters fan, I don't think you're going to find much on this album for you. But if you're a Daughters fan with other interests, with a wider scope of interest, then maybe.
One thing I'll say on the Scott Walker thing is, I think those first four records have really prominent, melodic bass lines, like "The Old Man's Back Again." That's what you really hear. That's one thing on the new record, your bass lines are super melodic. I mean that started to happen really, I think, on Wide Awake!, but this one I feel like you and Max are doing more this time than you've ever done before, to be more in the spotlight.
Yeah. I would say that. And Max and I, it's funny, we don't... I actually never sent any emails saying that specifically, but I think that is true. Maybe that's where that influence kind of flows in. And even the other songs that I listed off to you, are all very bass or rhythm section, kind of heavy. That's something that I've also sort of worried or wondered about. I don't know what people want to hear when they hear Parquet Courts, I think that it's something where we all try to do our best about playing exactly what we're meant to play, to make sure that the song does what it needs to do. I think it maybe took me a long time to understand the value of a good rhythm section. And I'm not saying that Parquet Courts has got the best rhythm section in the game, or anything like that but I think that Max and I work really well together. I always played guitar, and I think that it took me a long time to reconcile or realize, how to play the bass appropriately in a song that could have a million different bass lines. Even with this record, there are a few songs where I recorded, I don't know, five different bass lines for a song or something. And we just had to either settle on one, or oftentimes what would happen would be, if we were doing an improvisational sort of thing, we would figure out which parts of different things I did, that everybody was into. Then I would kind of create a new bass line, stitched together out of all those things. And have to learn how to play that, and then record it. So that was another interesting process that we went through for this. And, just as a musician, I get a lot of satisfaction out of that process, because I do like having challenges like that for myself.
You made this record with producers Rodaidh McDonald, who's worked with The xx and King Krule, and John Parrish who's worked with PJ Harvey, Aldous Harding and more. Your last album was made with Brian Burton, aka Danger Mouse, who I imagine was a pretty hands-on producer. How was the process different this time around?
It depended on the producer. They were both pretty hands-on, but in very different ways. A lot of that had to do with our experience with Brian, which was excellent. It was really great getting to have the opportunity to work with a producer, and working with Brian was really fun, and I still consider him a homie and stuff. But it probably would have been so different with John and Rodaidh, had we not spent the time with Brian to get an idea of what that workflow was like. We'd done other things in the past that were sort of one-off trial sort of things. We've recorded at the Wilco Loft and even though Jeff Tweedy would probably cringe if I told you that he deserved producer credit on songs, I think that he does in many ways. It's just sort of different to understand that process with certain people. Rodaidh, for example, it wasn't difficult for him at any point to get behind a synthesizer, or get his hands on a tape echo, and sort of manipulate what we were doing in real time so that he could play back something for us that we didn't even realize we were doing. Brian never did anything like that, but his ability to kind of almost mix a song in real time, was really crazy. Because it made this situation happen where it was like, instead of by the end of the day you'd maybe have one song tracked and ready to put vocals on, it was like, by the end of the day, you had three songs that were done. Like, "Oh shit, I don't even know how that happened." There are so many songs from demos that we had going into the Wide Awake! sessions...there are four more records worth of songs, between that and the demos from this, that we could put out.
I think Brian kind of prepped us for being able to have really good workflow, and get a lot done in a short period of time. And Rodaidh was an extension of that, which is to say he always had his hands on something. You could always tell something special was going to happen, when he went over to the board and started moving faders. It sounds kind of corny, but there was honestly, something magical about it.
What about with John Parrish?
It was similar, sort of. He has this air to him that is incredible, it's really warm and nice and comforting, but he doesn't use computers or anything. So, all of the recording for that was done on a board with the rack units and the people are running around with paper and pencil and shit. We were just in awe of it. It wasn't even like that was a novelty or something, to him or us. I didn't even realize that that was a thing people could do, anymore. But nonetheless, the songs that we did with him, they move at this pace that's got just as much consideration as the songs that we did with Rodaidh. But with Rodaidh, it was almost like multitasking. Imagine your web browser open with a million tabs...
I can imagine that.
A million tabs but you still manage to get everything done. And then, by the end of the day, you've closed... I mean, it's a thing that I've rarely if ever experienced, but in a perfect world, you've got all the tabs open that you need to, to get everything done that you have to. And then, by the end of the day, you've closed them all and shut down your computer. And that's like, success. That was like working with Rodaidh. And John was almost like working on a mural, or something. Where it was, we might just be working on one color for a long time, but it will be worth it for how it brings out the colors that we'll also spend a lot of time on, or something. Does that make any sense?
Yeah, I think so. So, how did it come about with working with John? I mean, most of the album is done with Rodaidh.
We had wanted to do something with him for a while, and what's crazy is, there are so many other songs that we did with him. It's just that only two are on the record. We recorded at Real World Studios in England, and we were with him for like two weeks. And I think we certainly got a lot done with him It's not to say that the other songs that we did with him, we weren't excited about, I'm sure that they'll find their way out into the world at some point. But it was the way that they kind of fit together with the majority of the album, or how we were imagining it. For us, setting up, getting together an appropriate track listing is its own whole process. I almost wish that we just let a computer decide, or something. But the way that it came together with John really was just that we were fans, and we were admirers of his work. We also knew that we wanted do something at Real World and the timing just kind of worked out. But yeah, god, what a great guy. A true magician.
So did you run into Peter Gabriel at Real World?
Dude, I wish. I wish I saw him. I heard stories, so many great stories. I mean, outrageous stories, of him being duct taped to the rafters and stuff like that to get vocal takes and whatnot. But I never saw him there, but you could sort of sense his energy a little bit.
Your first show back since the pandemic was that NJ show at White Eagle Hall. What was that like? I watched video and the crowd was going crazy.
it was so cathartic and very emotional, but it was also so intense leading up to it. Because it was nearly two years that we had spent not playing together and not playing live, I guess I must have developed a little bit of stage fright or something. I was honestly pretty terrified and had this recurring nightmare that I have had in the past, that I guess decided to kick up its recurring nature when we start playing. The dream is, we go out to play and I look at the setlist and I don't know how to play any of the songs. Yeah. I definitely had that, and then it was scary too, because I feel that was pretty legitimately the case, at first. When we got to band rehearsal leading up to that show, I was just like, "I don't know how to play any of these, I don't have any idea." But it came back really fast, a lot more quickly than I even anticipated. And then going out there, it was just emotional, honestly. Before we went out, I was like, "I just want it to be over. I just want to be good." And then, as soon as we got out there and played one song, I was like, "I never want it to be over. I think this is going really well." So it was great. (Laughter).
I still get the dream where it's finals week of college and I've skipped every class for the entire semester.
Oh, yes. I still have that, too. Terrible.
Just your classic anxiety dream, I think.
Yeah, totally. I love that people have shared dreams, There's a handful of dreams that you can talk to people about that are The Wire or Sopranos, there are some people, "You haven't seen The Wire," and sort of being like, "You haven't had the dream where you are about to graduate, but you forgot to go to one class." Right?
That's kind of funny that we can share that, with people.
Parquet Courts have done a few shows now. How are people taking to the new songs?
People seem to be really into them, I have to say. We've always made it a point to be that band who plays new songs before there's a point of reference for them, which for better or worse has always, seemed to benefit us. And so far so good, with these songs. I'm really excited to hear how they're received on the day of the record release show. I think that, not that I would expect everyone to just sit there and listen to every song so they could hear them all, but we definitely have had a lot of really good reactions to these tunes, live. And that makes us really happy. I think that people are also so excited to be able to be at shows again, too. If we were playing Happy Birthday through distortion pedals, they'd be pretty stoked.
You played Red Rocks, opening for Portugal. The Man. Had you played Red Rocks before, and what was that like?
Man, that was so crazy. We's never played Red Rocks before, and I really look forward to the opportunity to play it again. That show was so nuts. I don't even know how to -- I've barely processed it, honestly. It was such a big deal, it was amazing. It was absolutely ridiculous. And it was crazy too because that show kind of came about in a really weird way. We got offered that show during lockdown. So there was this kind of thing where it was like, this offer for the show came in and everybody obviously was just so uncertain as to whether or not it would happen. But we were just really, like every band I think, hoping. It created a lot of brightness in an otherwise, sort of dark moment where I was like, "Holy shit. An offer to play a show. Oh my God." And then, whatever, a year went before it actually happened. And so I think that we were just kind of like, "Oh, crazy." And then we got there and it was, I would just love to go back. It was definitely something else. Probably, easily, the most people we have ever played in front of and it has such an important place in the history of music. Just even on a personal level, it was a huge triumph to be considered to play it.
How was the response from Portugal. The Man fans?
It's hard to say. I wasn't looking. People seemed to really like it, or we didn't get it booed off the stage or anything like that. But it was definitely hard to know. I can't imagine why we wouldn't be able to coexist, it isn't like, the weirdest bill or whatever. I imagine there were some people that were maybe not into it, but at least they got to see Portugal. The Man, who put on a hell of a show. So I can't even imagine anybody who didn't like it, would be mad for that long. And then, I think, I'd like to think that we probably got a couple of people who'd never heard of us before, to think that we might be cool. I never really thought about that, actually. Hopefully, they liked it.
So you were in lockdown for a year and a half, I assume you were just home with your family, which was probably awesome.
But, you said you've got two young kids. Did they sort of forget that Daddy plays in a rock band, and are they ready for you to go out on tour?
That's a tough one, man. It's definitely the thing that I'm having the most existential struggle with. My wife and kids were able to come up for the White Eagle Hall show, for the sound check. And my son is seven now, my daughter is five, they were five and six during lockdown. And it was just kind of, I know that they know what I do, and they've been to shows before, and stuff. And it has an effect on them, but it's definitely, now that they're even just a year and a half older, the thought of going away, it's so much harder. And so, I really want to make it a point, to make it worth it. So I want them to be proud of me obviously, but I hate saying goodbye to them. That's a bummer.
OK, one last thing. Earlier this year, you put out a song with Joel Ford [Ford & Lopatin, Driftless Records) as Tight Ferrari.
What can you tell us about Tight Ferrari, and what can we expect in the future from Tight Ferrari?
I'm so glad this came up. That was a definite COVID extracurricular activity kind of thing. Joel and I have been friends for a long time, and we were always tossing around, always texting each other about doing something together. Or even, we've got a ton of other weird songs, just sort of kicking around. But this was like, a pure COVID boredom project. And then, I think my friend Kieran O'Hare made an animated video for it, that I think is pretty awesome. It's so weird because it just kind of came about because of Joel and I, and our goofy relationship. I was in LA right before COVID, and I was walking to his house to hang out with him. And I just, had those lines, "Lamborghini, Maserati," and just had the lyrics in my head, wandering around like an idiot. And I got to his place and I was still sort of doing it, but he just so happened to have this instrumental with that 808 kick, four to the floor thing. And the next thing I knew, the song is completed. It was just like that. And I don't know, Joel and I talk a lot about doing more stuff together, and I think that he's always really busy, and now I'm about to be super busy again. But I would imagine that there will be more Tight Ferrari to experience in the not infinitely distant future.
Is there, is there anything else we should know?
Just that, we're just so excited to get back out there, honestly, and see as many people we can as safely as we can. This is always, this is kind of the eve of everything, right? Who knows? Hopefully people like the record enough to want us see us do it live, because we've had so much fun learning how to play these songs live. And it's required some additional gear here and there, but it's fun. I just really look forward to hearing what people have to say about it.